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Proposed Rule Change
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: tires Reply with quote

12M wrote:
I am building a pony for 2007. I sold tires for several years and Im sure there is another tire that will work as well as the sumitomos. Why not make the sumitomos the only tire you can use. Or pick another tire and make every one use the same tire. Marice said everyone has to buy tires so pick a tire and everyone can use the same one. I not raced at Spartan so maybe I have no idea but I think if you stop letting people use a tire this year next year there will be another tire you cant use. Just my thoughts.
12M - What are you building ?
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12M



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Location: OLIVET

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iam building a Dodge Neon I do have a question about tires. What size tires do I have to run.
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest tire you can run is 195/70/14 It has to be a DOT tire also. It can be any brand except Sumitomo.
John
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markmantyla



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 81
Location: saint johns

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

didn't they change it to 185's for the neons? non sumitomo still
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goinincircles22 wrote:
The biggest tire you can run is 195/70/14 It has to be a DOT tire also. It can be any brand except Sumitomo.
John
Not on a Neon, Max 185/70/14
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If most of the FWD 4 cyl racers think that the NEONS need more restrictions... then just ask for them, but be specific on your requests.

All Managers want specific requests backed up with empirical data, not anecdotal referances.

So Maybee....

Post a poll on the Spartan web site under the Pony stock forum, and ask Spartan's PONY racers to vote on,,,

#1, should the NEONS Exhaust outlet Diameter be further reduced from the current 1 1/2 inches?
vote Yes or No.

#2 if you voted yes, then What Should the NEW maximum outlet Diameter be?

1 1/4 inches max o.d.?

1 inch max O.D.?

#3 should the NEONS be made to weigh more than the 2006 rules?
vote YES or NO.

#4 IF yes,,, then How much more?

100 lbs more ?

200 lbs more ?

300 lbs more?

400 lbs more?


#5,, Keep the 2006 weight and exhaust rules, but Have a second feature win rule exhaust penalty, after your second feature win, for the rest of the season you will have to run a more restricted exhuast outlet,,,

after 2 feature wins = smaller exhuast outlet.

Vote Yes or NO.

#6 Keep the 2006 weight and exhaust rules, but Have a second feature win weight penalty rule, after your second feature win, for the rest of the season you will have to weigh more,,,

After 2 feature wins = more weight.

Vote Yes or NO.

#7, Keep the 2006 weight and exhaust rules for 2007.

Vote YES or NO
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said that the BIGGEST Tire you can run is 195/70/14, I did not say that it was the only size you can run. You can run what ever size will fit your car as long as its not bigger than 195/70/14.

John
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markmantyla



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 81
Location: saint johns

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is from maurices update for next years rules....am I reading it wrong?


maximum width of 195 and no less than a 70 series may be used.

Exception: Sumitomo brand (and any derivative of the Sumitomo brand) tires may not be used on the front on any car. Neons are limited to a maximum width of 185 on the front.

Front tires must be the same size
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Trick.. good to see you back in the SS/SMS forum.

I like the gradual weight increase plan.. I worry that the motor will get hurt if exhaust get restricted a lot more.

Yes TeamPotter/Torg, I don't want to see your cars hurt, I just want them to be on the same playing field.

Actually, was talking to a Pony racer yesterday and they mentioned they feel like they are watching an episode of Pinks when the regular pony cars race with the Neons.. said we are like the street cars and the Neons are the Race Cars, they got a good laugh as the Street Cars guys try to "negotiate" to get a couple of lengths and the Race Cars guys try to make it sound like they are barely holding on... and then in the money race they win by 10 lengths.

Anyhow.. hope you can make the chat tonight... see the rest of you guys at 8pm.
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Restricting the exhaust outlet diameter to a smaller O.D. of 1 1/4 inch or even 1 inch O.D. will NOT harm the engine, it will just make LESS power at high RPM.

Plus a smaller exhaust outlet is CHEAP and easy to install, and does not effect braking and handling,,plus less HP = less engine load and wear.

and its Easy to tech.

I prefer going the smaller exhaust outlet route vs. adding weight, in order to even up the cars.

when compared to a smaller exh. outlet, extra weight costs more to install, upsets the chassis handlling and braking, also it makes the tires, brakes and engine work harder.
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trick, why are we even revisiting the exhaust on the neonís. Let post some facts. The Shadows won 15 Races this year, 9 Fast times The neon had 6 fast times and 6wins (note: No Sunday races) so why are we even looking to change the rules regarding neonís? If anything the exhaust rule should be eliminated to let the neonís catch up to the shadows.
_________________
Effort equals results...Penske
Their is only air in my tires, Like your head...Evernham
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Average Points per featued started:

78.3 Mark Garland
73.4 John Ward
73.1 Jimmy Scavarda
72.5 Wayne Beckner
72.3 George Wyers
72.0 Brent McCort
71.8 Keith Holden
71.6 Tina Anderson
70.6 Joe Bates

Neons in 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place.
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all,

These are my opinions on the GOOD things Neons have brought to the pony stock class.

#1) They have increased car counts,
teams Like TEAM TORG, would have not built new NEON Cars and sold their old cars to new racers.
By having Team Torg switch to Neonís, the supply of quality, competitive, well built FWD 4 cyl. race cars at Spartan just increased, because their old cars were sold to other racers.

The same is true for anyone else who switches to building and racing a NEON; their OLD car will get sold to beginners (LIKE MR. McNamara) who want a race ready car at a very affordable price.

#2) Neons have made racing a FWD 4 cyl. Car LESS expensive.

A) Because Neons are cheaper to build and race than a 20 year old Dodge Shadow.

B) The resale value of Dodge shadow is now LESS than it would be if Neons were NOT legal, so now a Fan from the Stands can buy a race ready dodge shadow for much LESS than it cost to build it...Giving MORE fans from the stands a chance at Affordable racing.


ALL the Car Companies have been doing this for decades...Planned Obsolescence,,, The 2006 Corvette is a better car than the 1996 corvette, If it wasn't, no one would buy the 2006 if they had a 1996 Vette.


IN 3 to 5 years this cycle will repeat itself in the Pony class at Spartan. Why? and HOW?

Well in 3 to 5 years, when the Insurance Salvage Pool auction prices on the DOHC 16 valve, Chevy Cobalts/Cavaliers and Ford Focus's come down to around $300 to $500 for a good PONY candidate, they will then make the Cobalt and the Focus Legal.

Then the top Teams like TEAM Torg will then dump their NEONS for the now legal and better Cobalts or the Ford focus, and again New racers will buy their OLD Neons for a very affordable price.

Eventually in just a few years from now there will be so many Ponies made up of OLD Dodge Shadows, OLD Dodge NEONS, and NEW Cobalts and NEW Ford Focus's that they will need to run 3 features for the Pony cars, a A-Feature, a B- feature and a C-feature.

This is what happened to the Flat rock street stock class, and it is why FR gets over 60 Street stocks a night,,,planned obsolescence,,, a SS that ran the A feature 15 years ago is now in the B or C feature.

Every few years, FR allowed more racing chassis stuff, so the top teams would build NEW cars to take advantage of the NEW rules, and sell their old cars to new racers,,,,SSooo FR came up with the ABC feature idea where OLDer - Slower cars never get UN-competitive ,,,They just move down to a slower Feature.
(ps. IMHO if the MODS went to ABC features, they too would have 60 mods a night and the 15 year old mods and mods with less powerful engines would be running in the B and C features.)

IMHO, By 2010, 50% of the pony stock field will be running old cars that were Built by the top teams ( LIKE TORG)....

You see, if every 3 to 5 years, the track makes a new car the hot car to build, then these top teams become the DEFACTO HOWE/Port City type chassis builders for the Pony Stock class...All what the track needs to do is every 3 to 5 years make a NEW hot Car Legal( cobalt/ focus) , and car counts will go UP, because the Top Teams will always build the greatest and latest. And their OLD cars get recycled at very affordable prices to new drivers.,,,That is as LONG as the track has ABC type features.

Maybe by 2009 ,,to increase car counts, Spartan should Make the Ford Focus and the Chevy Cobalt legal, and then most of the NEON teams will switch and build new cars, then sell their old NEONS to NEW Drivers.

One would think this plan is almost diabolical But we consumers/racers are too predictable. We always want the latest and greatest stuff.
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BT_RACING



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: tire rule for ponys Reply with quote

in 2007 do we have atire rule or is it going to be voted on at the meeting
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pony Stock Rules have been written and are done.

Tire rule is here: http://www.spartanspeedway.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=244

basically, no sumitomo's on the front, max 195x70 (185x70 on a Neon), max retail price of $75 per tire.
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