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FWD stagger question

 
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mynameisearl



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: FWD stagger question Reply with quote

Hi am a long time lurker but have just joined this board . I race what is pretty much the equivalent of your Pony Stock class up here on a 1/3 mile paved banked oval.

I have pretty much learned how to set up my car from reading posts on here and have had some success after just running a half season . Most people up here seem not too interested in giving a rookie a strait answer so I thought I might get one here .

Could someone tell me about running stagger on the front of a FWD ? I have run the car strait up this past year but would like to run a smaller tire on the left front to give myself a little more gear since that is the wheel that drives all the time . I have been told this is hard on CV joints and axels , is this true ? If I can run stagger with out screwwing up the drives , how much can I run ?

Someone told me I might want to try setting the car up hillbilly /upside down big tire to the left front to make the car drive off the right front . I am very skepticle about this

Thanks ahead of time to anyone that could clear this stuff up ffor me


Earl
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Earl,
As far as stagger goes on the front of a FWD car, On my car "(Dodge Shadow) I ran equal size tires all away around the car. The only thing about the tires that was different was the tire pressures. This is what I ran for pressures. These are when the tires are still cold.....RF 46lbs.....LF 41lbs...RR 36 lbs.....LR 35lbs. This worked best for me. The tires I ran were Sumitoms HTR 200 70 R 14''. I was turning an average lap of 16:50's at Spartan Speedway. Im not sure about running a bigger tire on the left front. nobody here at Spartan does that that I know of. It might be worth a try though. Running different size tires on the front is not good for the trans gears. It causes premature wear, CV joints would be turning at different speeds.
Good Luck
John Ward
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mynameisearl



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply John .

First I should clear up that "up here" as I mentioned in my post is Ontario Canada . I also run Sumitomos and run about the same air presures as you . I have noticed that some of the fast guys are running stagger on the front but I dont know if they are putting CV joints and the like in all the time because of this , and if that is the case its not for me because I am on a budget .

Anyone else that could give me some feed back on this I would really appreciate since the guys up here seem to think they are Nextel Cup racing and everything is a big secret .

Earl
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Earl,

Don't worry about any extra strain on your differential with different sized tires. Those "spider" gears aren't turning very much unless you've got one tire locked up and the other one spinning.

They are always turning a little bit no matter what you do. When you are in the corner, the outer tire is making a bigger circle, so it will spin a little faster than the inner tire. This is why cars with locked differentials need to use stagger. They need a bigger tire on the outside so that the two tires aren't working against each other. The drawback to that is they will work against each other down the straightaway.

With an open differential, stagger has little to no affect on your car. The only thing it really affects is the ride height which is similar to adjusting on a screw jack.

With locked differentials, the smaller the track is, generally the more important stagger becomes. The bigger the track is, the less important.

In fact, on real big tracks, stagger will really hurt you due to the long straightaways. Even the slightest amount of stagger will slow you down. This is also why the Cup cars run open differentials at Daytona and Talladega. Your foot is on the floor all the way around those two tracks, there is no sudden burst of acceleration coming off the corners, so that type of traction is not much of a factor.

Anyway, back to your dirt Pony Stock. Don't be concerned with stagger. Work on how the car's attitude becomes going through the corners. If the track gets packed down real hard, you can drive it like an asphalt track. But if it's wet, a FWD car is a handful and very hard to drive. You can't steer while spinning your front tires. However, there are some tricks, and legal ones too.

Your car will spin the left front tire wildly on dirt while in the corners. You need to get the torque applied to the RF tire somehow. You can do that by using your brakes all the way around the turn. You'll have to reduce the amount of braking force at the RF wheel. You can do this by reducing the size of the brake pads. A smaller caliper piston also works. Somehow, you want more braking force at the LF wheel.

Now, when you get the car set up for the corner and are ready to stand on the gas all the way around, apply a little brake. The LF brake will slow down the spinning tire and shift the torque to the RF tire and it will help pull you around the turn. It will take a lot of practice to get it right, but once you've done that, you'll be fast.

-Maurice
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earl,

At Spartan they are NOT allowed to weld up the spider gears in the final drive differential creating a LOCKED final drive.

so if you see guys running stager on the front wheels at your dirt track, they MAY have locked their final drive differential. On dirt this would be a big advantage...

what do your rules say about running a locked final drive? is it legal or not?

Even if it is NOT OK, but they do not check, lock your final drive,,,because the big dogs are more than likly doing it.
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