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Mod Class update as I know it
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schinde



Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 416

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, I wish to thank Maurice for stepping up and putting this together as quickly as he has. I fully agree that an MMA and or USA car can run legally under these rules, given Maurice's disclaimer/clarification at the top of the rules section for the mods.

In order to clear up any conflicting language between the two sanction rules, after reading these rules over, and taking into consideration the disclaimer statement that Maurice placed at the top of the rules, I would suggest the following:

B. Bodies

a) Eliminate the section regarding the front 24" and first 6" of the roof for series sponsors. We can come up with something for the mod series sponsor on our cars with agreement at a driver's meeting at the track. Not a problem.

c) Eliminate the duplicate numbers sentence., Transponers take care of that issue for us, and the line up board (thanks' Tom) uses the driver's last name first letter for identification purposes for those of us with dup numbers.

e) Change to add front or back support for spoilers to accomodate all of the current cars.

j) Eliminate 8 inch clearance rule to accommodate MMA cars.

M. Suspension

Add rule to allow for the tubular lower A-frames that some mod drivers may be using, ensuring that they meet original A-frame dimensions and measurements as was allowed under MMA. Clearly, they will be limiting their ability to compete within the USA rules, but won't be eliminated from being able to compete at Spartan.

Save for those clarifications, these rules would not eliminate either MMA or USA cars from being able to compete at Spartan this year.

I will be running my car basically identical to last year, and see no significant conflict, nor anything that would prevent me from running USA should I desire, save for the specific USA rules that I haven't addressed, such as 58% or right side weight of 1,000 lbs. Should I decide to go run with the USA series, I will have to address those issues with my ride.

I can't wait to get to the track, and hope everyone else feels the same.

See you there,

have a good day,

schinde
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Mod88



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At last some rules in place that pretty much makes any mod legal to run at Spartan. I say lets crank em up and go racing. Good luck to all this season.
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Big Ed



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I am no technician, fabricator, or car builder by any means, but thought I'd share this idea and development I learned last night.

Auto City, Dixie, Whittimore, and Owosso Speedways have formed a coalition between the four tracks and have agreed on a set of rules for the modified division. Their rules will be the exact same for each of these tracks. They will have to do nothing to their cars to run either of the facilities. I do not understand every single concept of the rules, but it seems as though we are very close to what they are going to be doing for 2007, and the future. They are looking at also doing the same thing for their other divisions in the future.

There is only one of the rules that I see that could NOT be changed, and would keep us from actually joining the coalition, and that is the tires. We will be on American Racers, and they have all agreed on the Hoosier 970. Other than the tire, I think we're close already. And with our rules not quite yet in stone, shouldn't we look at the possibilities here??

I have a copy of the new coalitions rules and will be giving it to Jim for his review on Saturday. I mean, to be able to travel to four different tracks and only have to worry about changing tires is a giant step in the right direction as far as tracks cooperating with each other goes.

I'd be interested in hearing all your thoughts on this matter.

Big Ed
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Mod88



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Ed,

The idea sounds great. But without seeing what the coalitions rules are it is going to be hard to comment. I know Dixie had the no aluminum head rule. It would be great if Spartan for this year would allow the Hoosier 970 along with the American Racer.
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modfan



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Can someone who makes decisions for the track let me know if a car was legal last year that it is still legal this year otherwise I need to start getting a hold of the 6 people that I built bodies for so that I can change them.
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modfan



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Big Ed is right on those other rules because the guys from Owosso and the tracks to the east are more apt to come to Spartan than the USA guys. Excluding Many to please a few.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here's the official deal...

All MMA asphalt cars from 2006 are perfectly legal at Spartan in 2007.
All USA cars from 2007 are perfectly legal at Spartan in 2007.

Please understand the above wording.

Some of you failed to notice the big red letters at the beginning of the Modified rules. That is a "draft" copy of the rules. It also states that the rules are subject to change within the next few days. That means that wording in the rules is being worked on and tweaks are being made in order to allow everyone to be legal by the rules.

We started with the USA rules because a good share of the MMA rules are exactly the same as the USA rules. And the USA specifically states that their rules may be freely copied. So, that's why we started with those rules.

Next, we rearranged them a little in order to follow a similar layout as the rules for our other divisions.

Then a few changes were made to accomodate some of the MMA differences. Not all of the differences are in the rules yet, but they will be before we get done with it. We have to word everything in a way that keeps both cars legal.

And then we also have to accomodate the cars from the tracks that are nearby. Fortunately, this is very easy to do. Kalamazoo uses the USA rules. It appears that Owosso has copied the MMA rules. We will check the other tracks as well and make sure we are accomodating them.

The most important thing to note here is that now everybody knows what is going on with the Modified class.

Please don't worry about the rules... we will accomodate all of our regular racers and try our best to allow others to come and race with us.

-Maurice
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Big Ed



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod88,

I know they are allowing aluminum heads this season with a weight penalty, but are NOT allowing them for 2008. There is also a 200 dollar shock rule. I have the coalition rules with me, I just am not savvy enough to scan them in and then get it copied here. If I have time later, I will type them for all to look over. I am giving this copy to Jim on Saturday.

I'll look and see if the other tracks have this on their website yet, and will copy it over here if they do.

Big Ed
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Mod88



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Ed, that would be great if you would do that. I just looked at Dixie and Owosso's rules and it doesn't look like they have updated them yet. It still shows Dixie as NOT allowing aluminum heads but allowing fab lowers etc.
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governor72



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron,

Don't get your panties in a knot, the changes are very subtle and the race tracks plan is to be able to accommodate more cars, not less.

For those who had a concern about who was involved in these changes all you have to do is look at the 2006 Spartan mod lineup. Contact was made with as many of the drivers as we had contact info on and they were asked to attend the meeting at my house. Some could come and some could not. Billy H. & Larry Wallace could not attend, Jason had no interest, as he was not going to race and I believe Ron Parish was in Florida.

The one thing that has not changed, that over 75% of the drivers wanted was a change to the 970 tire.

Perry,
If you could post a list of drivers & crew who were in attendance at that meeting it might put any rumors to rest as there were a whole bunch of us involved in trying to come up with a common rules package.

We then had 2 other meetings one with Jim and one with Jim & Paul and a lot of the same drivers were in attendance.

Sure, not everyone was for the changes, but by far the majority were for the changes that are taking place.

Dan Logan
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Big Ed



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right Hobart, they have not updated their websites.

This meeting was just yesterday, the 28th. I have scanned the document, but every time I try to copy and post it, it is unreadable. If any of you would like to see the coalition rules, or think you may have better luck than I am, and you have a fax machine. Post it here, I will fax you this document, and we'll go from there. I won't be on here again until Friday morning, but will be in my office all day Friday and would be more than happy to fax this to anyone that wants it, or that has better skills than I do when it comes to posting such a thing here.

Humbling things these puters are, they can make you feel SOOO smart, then turn right around and make you feel SOOOO dumb too!!!!

Big Ed
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Ed,

Fax a copy to 517-543-5202. That's my shop number, but the fax machine will intercept when it hears the fax tones.

-Maurice
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next incarnation of the Modified section of the rulebook is online and includes a few more changes to further allow MMA cars and USA cars to compete together.

Here's the link that will take you straight to the rules:

http://spartanspeedway.com/Info/rules2007/2007Rules20.php

Portions listed in a magenta color indicate the changes made to accomodate the cars that still fit the MMA rules.

I also made a change that has the 4 inch minimum ground clearance being checked post-race. This helps the disadvantage that the alcohol cars have with the extra weight at the start of a race. They can start out a little under 4 inches and be legal by the end of the race. Same with gasoline cars. Both are checked for ground clearance post race, and not before the race.

You'll also notice that the roofs will be measured differently. There were at least 6-8 cars last year that weren't legal. This year, they are legal due to the way the roof is checked.

I think just about all the changes needed along with the changes requested here are implemented. If anybody still sees something that needs fixing, post it here.

-Maurice
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Lack o Diesel



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 228
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is a copy of the meeting notes taken from the meeting at Dan's garage. These are the original notes taken from that meeting. Everything we discussed good, bad, or indifferent. Also I believe Dan talked to Billy Luckhurst, Kevin Lincoln, and a few others. Dan if needed please add who I forgot to add. We then presented Jim with all of this information at the December meeting and those in attendance were.
1. Dan Loughan 2. Matt Shindewolf 3. Earl Miles 4. Dick Lapratt 5. Nyle Weiler 6. Chris Ozanich 7. Perry Davenport 8. Doug Allen

Jim was given a copy of the 2007 USA rules, along with any other information needed to go along with these notes. The field was represented very well in the meeting. This was not a closed door secret meeting. We just never get anything accomplished when there are 30 of us.

‘06 Drivers Meeting held at Dan Loughan’s shop on Nov. 26th, 2006
Drivers In attendance:
1. Perry Davenport 2. Dan Loughan 3. Matt Schindenwolf 4. Earl Miles 5. Dusty Carl 6. Leroy Ellis 7. Ken Buchner 8. Chris Ozanich 9. Tom Williams 10. Dick Lapratt 11. Nyle Weiler 12. Wayne Houghton 13. Jim Kennedy
Drivers that could not attend, but voiced their opinion:
1. Bud Perry 2. Larry Wallace 3. Maynard Bigelow

MMA: Stay with MMA or drop MMA for ‘07. Of 16 drivers, five were for staying MMA, and eleven were for dropping the sanction.
Reasons for staying: Possibly picking up a different tire but keeping the sanction. Some prefer the American Racer tire over the Hoosier 970, for reasons of durability and puncture resistance. State point fund, without the MMA what kind of point money would we be racing for. Where would money go that we pay in.
Reasons for dropping: MMA dropped our insurance without truly making us aware. Will we have a serious sponsor for ’07? What have they really done for us? Most feel that MMA is a dirt sanction and asphalt tags on, just like the IMCA days. Consensus wants the Hoosier 970, not because it is faster but because at least then you can set up at the shop. The Hoosier is smaller, requiring different pressures, weights, springs, shocks, the sidewall is softer so it acts like a softer spring.

Tires: At the very least the consensus wants the Hoosier 970. We had one driver for any 8” (9” 970 included) tire allowed. Four were for the American Racer. Eleven were for the Hoosier 970. Tires were the biggest issue; the discussion was not heated but well contested on both sides.
Reasons for keeping the American Racer: More resistant to punctures. They last longer. They seem to be more repeatable. To change tires we have to drop our sanction. Harder tire promotes better racing.
Reasons for the Hoosier 970: Same tire as every other track. That tire gives racers an option. Better tire, more responsive. Those that want the 970 say that durability is not an issue. If you take care of the tires they will take care of you. When Modifieds were created you could go anywhere with your car, now it’s a tire game. Better tire promotes better racing.

Tire impound: Consensus was to impound but it was a very split discussion. Why argue for the same tire as everyone else if you are going to leave them at Spartan on Friday night. Guys can’t afford that many tires to just let them sit in a trailer. If we do not impound how are we going to control the soaking of tires. There absolutely must be consequences it and a way to catch it. Recommended punishment 1st offense: confiscate the all treated tires, points and money for the night and 2 weeks off. 2nd offense: Confiscate all treated tires, points and money for the night, suspension for the remainder of the year.
Recommended procedure for the tire impound: a) No more than, but up to six tires in impound. Only two new tires at one time, the rest have to be used. b) No more than, but up to six tires in impound. Only two new tires at one time, the rest used. Right side (or left side, but must be two) tires must be impounded per night. Under both procedures allow tires taken off to be marked for other competitors. If you take off a tire and want to give/sell it to another competitor you can mark or hold that tire for that individual. Only allow 2 new tires per night. (Possible idea, New tires must be used that night or they cannot be impounded) No stock piling of tires.
Reasons for no impound: Cost, some racers can’t afford to have all these tires and or rims sitting. Who governs what happens to them in the trailer? Will it stop soaking? Is it going to turn into a money game?
Reasons for impound: Will almost do away with soaking of tires. If someone is going to soak they are going to have to work for it, and will probably get caught or give up on it. Impound evens out the playing field. You will not have cars on new tires every week. Will force tire management. It will also promote better racing.

Break out time: One thing brought up was top four are exempt from the breakout rule, but otherwise needs further discussion. If caught you are sent to the tail on next caution, if caution does not come out you are black flagged from the event. If you get black flagged in your heat race for breaking out, you start at the back of the B feature or A feature which ever is applicable. You must race your way in from that point.

Point fund: If we drop MMA, is there a chance at a better point fund for the drivers. Could the track pick up a sponsor for the division? All fines, disqualification moneys go to our point fund.

Feature winner behind the invert: Consensus is against it. Only problem is sandbagging. It could be possible that one person could sandbag there way to many feature wins. Possible solution is to tighten up the break out time. Definitely needs discussion.

Personal Accountability: As a group we need to show a little more professionalism. We need to cut down the amount of caution laps we run. To many laps are run trying to decide who spun who, who goes where etc…. Recommendation: If you spin someone out, or bring out the caution you have one caution lap to own up to it and go to the tail. If no driver claims responsibility then both drivers go to the tail. Method of owning up to it needs to be discussed and decided upon (example: hand on the roof, pulling to inside of track). Also, we need more consistency in the ruling of going to last completed green. Recommendation: We go back to the last green flag lap that was completed by every car on the lead lap.


Sorry to take up all the space just thought that those who hadn't seen it should get a chance. I'll be happy to answer any questions that anyone has.

Perry Very Happy
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oz



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a couple minor things that I noticed that are USA rules ,but there is no mention of them in the MMA rule book that could just be deleted.
Under roll cage and bumpers it states that no part of the front nose shall extend past the front bumper,and under fuel and fuel cells it says that the fuel cell cannot be lower than the rear end housing,MMA rule book just says it has to be protected by the frame which is about 4 inches lower than the rear end housing.I understand that my car should be legal this year if it was last year,so I don't plan on changing these things unless I'm forced to,just thought I'd point them out.
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