[jeff finley]

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I would like to open this post to discuss what we need to do to get more super lates back to spartan.I know super late car counts are down every where but where is harry foote,tim ryan.tim rugg,jack landis,john dunivon,carl sodman and jeff hackworth.What can spartan do to get you back to the track.If its a personal issue call jim.Good or bad you cant fix it if we dont talk about it.We have great racing going on now and if we can get 16 cars every night that would create more racing.Lets hear your thoughts.Respectfully Jeff Finley

[Jim Leasure]

I am with Jeff on this one. We had a nice meeting last off season and things have been exactly as we said they would be. During the upcoming off season we will be looking at some options to increase car counts in the Super division. The fans like the Supers and we need to give the fans what they want. We did say in order to have a Super division as a weekly show we had to have two things, which are cars and people in the stands. I think the stands have been there but the car count is low. I have had only one driver (Carl Sodman) call to let me know he is on the way. I am easy to reach at the office (517-244-1042) or by email info@spartanspeedway.com. There could be many reasons to leave the cars parked but parking will not solve any issues, just make them worse by not supporting the Super Division with car counts. The door is open.

[chasinracin]

I have a few reasons....
one is the cost is so high that you will see less and less of the drivers moving up divisions like they use to. therefore as the elders leave there is none behind to come up.
two- With the cost of the cars compared to years past, Spartan has a reputation as a beat'm bang'm track and some guys value their equipment more than what the pay is.
three - its funny that this post is from a racer... its the promoters job to fix the ills at his track, and if its purse that keeps the cars away, then being a promoter, i would bang on doors hard to find extra $$ to bring the purses up to what would bring cars and thus more fans.
four-You must have fun with who you are with on your "night out-with the gang"
five- its just plain bad economy in MI and with gas $$$, you will not get travelers anymore. It is what it is these days in MI-- and I dont like it either.
six- there just isnt many supers around anymore and the ones that are, are selecting where to go. Dixie has had good super car counts , but only 5 races this year and look at the purse and you know why. Weekly super shows are hard to come by on asphalt anyways.

Todd
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[jeff finley]

Well said.Pay across the state is down in all classes.But make know mistake a racer is a racer.If we are racing for money (to a extent) we would be much better off racing after golf balls.I made this post because my family has been around for years at spartan.Its a great place to race and teaches you patience and improves your reactions and thinking.I want to see it get better.As i could see on bike give away night with only 7 sponsored bikes times are tough.But still these guys are racing some where and spending money.Sure spartan is tight with rubbing and bumping, always has been.Costs must come down to on the racers end to make it all happen.Thank you for your post.You have made some very good points.Respectfully Jeff Finley

[gunner]

There are several articles in the current issue of Late Model Digest that won't answer the "why" questions that you ask, Jeff, but they do have some interesting ideas of "how" to fix some of the ills.

As I see it, there are two main points to be dealt with. The first is to let fun be the main thing. The second is to let the main thing be the main thing. It really can be that simple. Difficult to do, but simple in process.

Jeff, I admire your patience racing at Spartan and the example you set. I like watching you run Angola too. Maybe someone of your seniority needs to step up to a mentoring role at Spartan and encourage some of the other drivers to take a different look at things.

It is peculiar that past champions routinely fail to return to defend their title, and guys who live only miles from Spartan don't race there, but go 70 miles away to race weekly.

The previous poster makes a good point about this coming from a driver and not the promoter/mangler(s). It takes a promoter with a passion for the SLM's. Look at what Maurice has done as Springport because of his passion for that track. It would take someone with a similar passion for the SLM. Keep an eye on AMS as Craig has expressed a passion for the SLMs.

[Mrs. T2]

Man Jeff, you know how to make a girl feel wanted Where's my mans name on that list!?! I'm not sure if you know that Doc blew up his one and only motor a couple weeks back, but that's where we sit. We just can't throw in any ol' motor when running with names like Finley, Stehouwer, Hackworth, Ryan, etc!!! We hope to make it back out there before to long
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[jeff finley]

Its great to hear your comments.Gunner you are mistaking me (jeff) for my brother doug as a racer.I used to race when i had hair.My son chad is racing now and we are learing at spartan as well as running the asa latemodel north series.I think this process of getting more cars will work backwards and need time.This post is only to start that process.We need more racers to help bring more fans.I beleive there are decent crowds on fridays,enough to where if we had all are current racers that have been there 1 time this year show up week in and week out we would have 16 cars and if we got Ryan,Rugg,Landis and Foote and others to show up word would travel by fans to other fans and then a hike in purse as we discussed in the off season meeting would be in order.If there is a specific reason why the guys dont travel here any more we need to know why so we can fix it.My only hope that these post make it to the drivers to break the ice.Like Doc there are others with blown motors as well.We just need it all to come togther.Sorry Mrs T and others i did not mention. Respectfully Jeff finley

[Jim Leasure]

I looked back to get an idea about past Super counts. Cars that ran at least enough races to say they were regulars in 97 was 18, 98 was 17, 99 was 15 or 16, 00 was about the same, 01 was 19 to 22, 02 was about 21, 03 dropped to to about 16, 04 at 15, 05 the same and 06 was about 13. Big nights were specials. In 06 we tried to go to 8 shows with 1200.00 to win and 300. to start, this is much like Auto City and Dixie are now doing. I still think that gives people good start money to help off set travel expenses. The change made the fans angry so we went back to the long time format. This division is primarily made up of well seasoned drivers, you can tell by their names and if you talk to them you will see that they have gray hair, or in Jeff's and Dave Stehouwer's case no hair. My point is this, some are not racing any longer or have changed divisions, mostly because of pay outs.
One problem with gathering information from the Super drivers is that most do not post, that is why I gave our phone number as some will call with their input and some I will call.
Doug Finley has almost always been the track Champion and he is still there and having a pretty good time (except that we close the pits earlier than he would like). Dave was the 05 champion and is having a good time as well. Jeff Finley was also a Champion and is still there although in a different capacity. We are missing Landis and Foote (97 to 06), both because of pay off.
Stehouwer told me something in 05 that has always stuck, and that is all drivers have a happy meter and that the trick is to keep that meter at top dead center. I think that the most common reasons for losing SUPER drivers is money, management and attrition. The first two can be over come with some effort but the last is tough because there are very few new people entering the Supers, although this year we have three young drivers, Dougherty, Jakubic and Finley. All are regulars.
It is a possibility we will see some rather significant modifications to the Super division next season in order to breathe some fresh air into the division. We lost one driver (Davis) this year because the spec motor couldn't stay up. That falls under the money part of the three reasons.
One of the reasons the outlaw body is so important at Spartan is because it is a tight track, but that is also the lure for many. The bodies can often be bent back into place.
This thread is a solution finding thread, that is why Jeff started it. Facts and specifics are very important because they are helpful in decision making. People with a vested interest have a wealth of knowledge as well as some common goals and we are asking those people for their participation in hopes of increasing car counts for the over all health of the Super division in the future.
In order to keep repair cost down Spartan has initiated some strict rough driving policies and they have worked well (except Supers last week). The Mods have gone green, white, checker for the last two weeks. Can anyone remember the last time that has happened?

[Anonymous]

Just so everyone knows... this topic was also started in the Super Late Model forum, but was getting the most attention in the Spartan Speedway forum. So, I merged both topics into this one so that there was less confusion and no need to copy messages between the two.

Thanks for all the participation on this topic.

-Maurice

[PlaceRace1]

If Chris were healthy, he would be out there. It is a bummer sitting out this year, but what can you do. We need to take the time to be sure he heals up completely.
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[jeff finley]

My post under the super late models was hope to reach out to the fellow racer.My post here was to get the all important fan comments.Maybe i am confused.Your stats are impressive jim.Your comments show you care and hopefully and proffesionaly we can make something come of this.Jeff

[Anonymous]

I see what you were trying to do, Jeff. But I think if it stays all in one message thread here, you'll get the biggest response and the most productivity.

No reason why the fans and drivers can't interact with each other. We can't race without either one.

Thanks for starting this Jeff. I hope it gets something going.

-Maurice

[grr456]

At one time a partner and I owned a super late model. Well, it was several over several years and we actually had 2 at once. We owned the cars because we just loved racing and most of the people associated with racing. That included drivers, officials AND even the owners.

I got cancer and couldn't work for nearly 2 years. I had to just give everything up, since no work = no money. My partner continued on for a year, or so, but then just sold out.

I came to the races whenever I could, but there are a few other factors some overlook. I live in the Detroit area, and for the past few years, I could not get to the track. Since the construction Gods decide to have work happening on every major freeway at the same time, it creates major back-ups no matter which way you go. I-75 was backed up as well as I-69. I-696/ I-96 is a major pain on this side of the state. Sometimes you just can't get there from here........

I wanted to get back into racing and I just can't afford it any more. Some things are just spiraling out of control and fuel is one of them. I can't afford $3.50 a gallon for regular gas, $5.75 for racing fuel, $25 for each pit pass and the list goes on.

When I started racing in the early 70's, the payouts were pretty good and you could actually make money racing. Quite a few made a living running from track to track. In the late 70's to early 80's, Mt. Clemens was paying $1,000 to $1,200 to win for the Super Late Feature! $500 to win for a Sportsman, or limited, feature. That was when a complete racecar chassis would set you back less than $5,000. Add less than $5,000 for an engine and you would have the best equipment that money could buy. Pit passes were $8.00 and the beauty of that was that they had 'Stand Passes' for your family for $2.00.

In short, unless you have either a high dollar sponsor, or you just have the gobs of money it takes to go racing, I think it'll just keep declining. The 'Experts' say that $3.00 a gallon for gas won't affect peoples driving habits, but they are full of it. Couple that with our economy and the fact that businesses are leaving the state, or closing on a daily basis, the fuel is just the final straw for some. I am a degreed engineer and the last 3 companies I've worked for have gone out of business. That is just since 2001! I am now making what I made in 1988, but at least I have a job.

I do know one thing though, the most expensive seat is an empty seat........

Gary Roys

[Mrs. T2]

Another reason we are seeing SLM's I believe is the tires. Now I'm not saying if I agree or disagree with the tire rules, but it does save our team $$$ because I have a driver that likes to smoke 'em (love ya babe) Not only do is there a limit on how many we can buy a week, but our tires are also impounded to try to eliminate tire soaking. I don't like that our tires sit in a trailer for a week, locked up in heat. Poor tires must of been dying in there the last week or so with temps in the mid 90's. It would be nice to have the tires (and wheels) at home with the car during the week just for set-up purposes. But from an outsiders view it would be that you have to buy 4 new tires when you get there because you can't bring in tires from the outside, and that's another $400+ right there on top of all the things Gary was talking about above
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[superfast14]

I've seen Jack Landis dominating Angola every week, along with Scott Hantz and Brent Jack.
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