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Push starting

 
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Push starting Reply with quote

I was witness to an event this past weekend,maybe I am misstaken but it looked as if a pony stock where push started. This would be impossible unless some one had tamped with the "stock" working of the car. I know how it works. With the lock up converters simply toggle switch them and bang direct drive. this allows "cheating" because you converted should only lock up under certain conditions and push starting is not one of them. I have set back and "trolled" this board and have built and help as many racers as I can but man that just seems like flat out cheating. Direct drive in a pony stock. I have not been there enough to know names but some one else could help me with that.
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Dennis ONeil



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 423
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed, I understand how a lockup torque converter works. I don't see how a locked up converter would allow for push starting. The pump has to be turning to create the hydraulic pressure needed to engage the clutches in an automatic. Therefore if the engine is not running the pump is not going to be turning. Perhaps the torque converter was locked and the engine would stall when put in gear and the push truck got the car rolling so it could be put in gear without stalling the engine.
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This car sounded like it had a dead battery. I could be wrong but the car was being pushed with engine off. Then fired. I wasn't close enough to see all the details just looks fishy.
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis.. how does the converter get locked up ? I thought lock out torque converters were illegal ?
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An automatic transmission is not able to be push started no matter what. The pump is in the front of the Trans and is turned by the engine. So if you push the car the output shaft spins but the clutches are not engaged and the engine will not turn over. Further the TCC (torque converter clutch) is feed by pressure from the pump. So again if the engine isn't running the torque converter is unable to engage.
PS the only exception to push starting auto transmissions is that in the late 60's ford (I think) had a duel pump transmission. And in a power glide, TCI makes a servo lever that has to be used with a direct drive coupler. None of the pony’s are RWD so none of them can be push started.
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tcc soliniod is electronic and can be over ridden. I have changed a bunch. I am a mechanic that is why I wrote this post. I just wrote what I seen. I know that in the dodge trucks with diesels you can install manual switches to over ride the computer. more power. I figure this will also work in all lock up application. I don't race there I don't really care but it just seemed funny. stock cars my a22!
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bone



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

was this car maybe a manual???
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
The tcc soliniod is electronic and can be over ridden. I have changed a bunch. I am a mechanic that is why I wrote this post. I just wrote what I seen. I know that in the dodge trucks with diesels you can install manual switches to over ride the computer. more power. I figure this will also work in all lock up application. I don't race there I don't really care but it just seemed funny. stock cars my a22!


So can you push start dodge trucks with the maual switch???

All of the spartan ponies are automatics.. Mg
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know never tried. Manuals aren't legal in your pony class.
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.spartanspeedway.com/Info/2006Rulebook.pdf

Try this link...Mg
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I went to the link and it said what it said the last time I read the rules. "Stock only" And in the transmission section automatic only and stock converters with no alterations.
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