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Pure Stocks Next Year @ Springport (If there is a next year)
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monzilla80



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Holt

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Drake.

Maybe there should be a limit put on camshaft lift. Like .100" over stock. Compression and vacuum are easy to check.

Also requiring a 2 piece timing chain cover would gain easy access to the oil pam to check for aftermarket rods, lightened, machined or knife edged cranks. These covers arent expensive at all. It also makes for quick cam changes.

The big killer here would be bore scope the intake and exhaust runners to check for port work. This rule would put a huge cap on teams with excessive money who wont move up a class. If you want to dump $6000 into a engine, why not go play with the big boys?

The Pure Stock class was suppose to be a low budget class for begining racers.
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circle8track



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you guys are all missing the point. With Springport even with the ABC deal the slow cars are still going to be slow. there just isn't enough cars and enough difference in the times in that class to make the ABC deal really work like it should
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daytonapony



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

circle8track wrote:
I think you guys are all missing the point. With Springport even with the ABC deal the slow cars are still going to be slow. there just isn't enough cars and enough difference in the times in that class to make the ABC deal really work like it should


Mid to bottom pack pure stock or top 2-3 C Main car?

Maurice would use the ABC to split them up a little more based on time. Heck if we got 30 rwd's total. Which in my opinion is doable with ABC rules. You could run 10 in each main. That would be better then 5-8 with such huge differences in time.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those of you who would like to keep the same Sportsman and Pure Stock rules must realize that when the Sportsman rules were set up last year, it reduced the car count. The idea behind the Pure Stock rules was to help bring back some of the cars that either didn't fit the Sportsman class or couldn't be altered to fit for various reasons. Using an ABC format will allow all the different types of Sportsmans, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Lead Sleds, etc to race. A lot of cars could be dug out of mothballs and would be competitive.

If we keep it the same way as we did in 2007 with Sportsman and Pure Stocks, there is little chance for the class to grow.

Right now, there are only a small handful of drivers who want to keep the Pure Stock class the way it currently is. The majority of teams I've spoken to want the ABC Stock Car Series in 2008.

Also, we don't need Invitationals to draw cars from other tracks and we don't need to make allowances for the differences in their rules. They can just come and race the way they are.

Another way to look at this is: Let's say a driver ends up in the B-Main but can't quite run with the 5 or 6 cars that are running up front. Since the rules are fairly open, he can make some inexpensive changes to his car and get his lap times down so that he too can run up front in the B-Main. If he had to follow the Pure Stock rule book to the letter, this might not be possible until he learns a lot more about how to set up his car or how to do some things while remaining legal. Now we've got 6 or 7 cars running at the front of the pack to find out who can drive better and win races.

These rules make it easier to make your car competitive, but it's still up to the driver to drive the car. That's the part that 90 percent of the drivers will enjoy.

I'll tell you what we could do for those Pure Stock teams who don't want to run the ABC series, you could keep your cars 100 percent legal to the Pure Stock rules and we will continue to run your RWD cars with the FWD cars next year. That way, we'll have a decent field of cars for that particular feature while the FWD class continues to build. But we will be a lot more strict on making sure the RWD Pure Stocks are 100 percent legal.

-Maurice
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iluvracing84



Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 86
Location: Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drake racing,

I don't know why you quoted me, because really what I said didn't have much to do with what you said. I never said you cheated, I'm just saying you always ran a lot faster than us, and our car would be better off with the ABC class. Although I did say that I had heard rumors, but like I said, those were just rumors as far as I know. And I didn't say that they were even about you. Just to clear things up.

I know cars were teched at Springport, just not every night. But I don't blame Maurice. I know people were threatening to leave because of things not being run the way they wanted them to, so if I was in that position, I would've probably said screw it. Let's just race.

Although I don't understand why people get mad when they are teched and don't end up being legal. They know they aren't legal, and honestly, they have no right to say anything, or to even be mad when they are found out, because they know the rules, and it's their own damn fault if they don't go by them and get caught.
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allhailfaz13



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that your going to have the abc class and there are going to be people that will do alot more to there cars because they want to make it to the a-main and they will do so much that there car will no longer be a pure stock and that means that any pure stock will need to have street stock tires in order to keep up which makes the cheap bigginer class not very cheap!!!! and if these people do all this to there cars then when they go to spartan they will not be a purestock and the cars that run at spartan cant compete with the cars at springport then its not any better then the opens with the autocty cars. i think the thing that drove people awayfrom springport is the fact that there are cars that run away with the race week after week and i think that people are sick of it. i know thats one of the reasons were not there
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allhailfaz13 wrote:
I think that your going to have the abc class and there are going to be people that will do alot more to there cars because they want to make it to the a-main and they will do so much that there car will no longer be a pure stock and that means that any pure stock will need to have street stock tires in order to keep up which makes the cheap bigginer class not very cheap!!!! and if these people do all this to there cars then when they go to spartan they will not be a purestock and the cars that run at spartan cant compete with the cars at springport then its not any better then the opens with the autocty cars. i think the thing that drove people awayfrom springport is the fact that there are cars that run away with the race week after week and i think that people are sick of it. i know thats one of the reasons were not there

So, what you are saying is, either way, you don't want to race there. You don't want to race with the ABC system and you don't want to race there the way it was in 2007.

How would you like it to be, then? You seem to have an opinion, how about also sharing some ideas? Right now, you are just criticizing both methods.

-Maurice
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todd metz sr.



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice,

I for one want to give you a pat on the back for TRYING to keep the majority of the racers happy!!!!

We all know that there is positively NO WAY to keep EVERYONE happy all of the time. I think that you are TRYING to get as much imput as possible from EVERYONE.

Lets all give Maurice our OPINIONS on what we would like to have for rules and classes for next year. After all is said and done THE racers get to decide if they can live with the rules or not. IF no one gives their thoughts or possible solutions to the people in charge, I feel that they have NO right to complain about what they end up with.

I am sure that I have upset some people with this post, but these are just MY humble OPINIONS. Please be part of the SOLUTION and voice your opinions so that Maurice can TRY and make the correct decisions.

Hope EVERYONE helps. Very Happy

RESPECTFULLY
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iluvracing84



Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 86
Location: Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd metz sr. wrote:

I am sure that I have upset some people with this post, but these are just MY humble OPINIONS. Please be part of the SOLUTION and voice your opinions so that Maurice can TRY and make the correct decisions.


I don't think anyone should be upset by your post. It's really Maurice's decision. If he wanted to be an @$$ he could just lay the rules out and not even ask your opinions. But he is trying to work with everyone, and people need to understand and appreciate that. Well said Todd!
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circle8track



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll all agree Maurice did a great job with the track this year. I really like that track. But Zack (allhailfaz13) is right. There are a lot of Pure stocks that are built and that go to Springport, but the reason why you couldn't get them all to the track on the same week is because nobody wants to go to the track ever week and watch the same car win every week. I think the Pure stock rules should be the same and the rules should be enforced more that 3 times a year or how ever many times they pulled the cars in the garage. Also, how would you guys run the Championship points with an ABC set up, would you have an A, B and C champion?? What happens if you make the B one week and the C the next week?? It has potentional but the key to it is organization and car count, and I really think car count is the key to it. I realize I am fighting an uphill battle on this conversation but once again, I'm never afraid to give my opinion.
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daytonapony



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

circle8track wrote:
We'll all agree Maurice did a great job with the track this year. I really like that track. But Zack (allhailfaz13) is right. There are a lot of Pure stocks that are built and that go to Springport, but the reason why you couldn't get them all to the track on the same week is because nobody wants to go to the track ever week and watch the same car win every week. I think the Pure stock rules should be the same and the rules should be enforced more that 3 times a year or how ever many times they pulled the cars in the garage. Also, how would you guys run the Championship points with an ABC set up, would you have an A, B and C champion?? What happens if you make the B one week and the C the next week?? It has potential but the key to it is organization and car count, and I really think car count is the key to it. I realize I am fighting an uphill battle on this conversation but once again, I'm never afraid to give my opinion.


Aaron,

If you read the other posts on this subject Maurice has not only posted how the points would work but he also posted about a possible payout.

As far as not coming ever week because you don't want to watch the same car win. I go to spartan and watch 4-6 cars go 12 laps. Typically there is one car that is alot faster and there are 2-3 that race for 2nd - 3rd and then there is one or two that is noticibly slower then the rest. At springport we typically have 10-13 total and they go 20 laps. There are 3-4 that race for the lead. There are about 4-5 that run for the next few spots and then there are 2-3 that are noticeably slower. Even with "the same car winning every week" I enjoy watching the pure stocks at Springport much more then at spartan.

To be competitive in the ABC format with a pure stock you would only need to get a set of Hoosiers, or American Racers. Uncork the exhaust, and drive well. I'm sure that with a healthy stock motor, sticky tires, and a decent driver a pure stock would be a high C main car on a really busy night and a competitive B main car on a slow night.

From what I am understand the biggest complaint your having is that a slow pure stock would be a slow ABC car? Is this fairly correct? You don't want to run the ABC because as a pure you would not be able to compete in the A main?

I'm just asking as this is what I'm reading.
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allhailfaz13



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all that im trying to say is that if you haft to do things to your car to be fast at springport like buying american racers then it take the point of the cheap starter class away those tire are around 100 bucks and the tires that are on our car were only 20 buck. the rules were good last year but unless you wanted to hall your car all the way there for 40 bucks its not worth going. thats y we werent there. the other thing is that why dont the tech more and the need to look in some motors because there are alot of not stock cars out there. thats all im trying to say and the abcwill make alot of people break the rules so they can be fast at springport

[/quote]We'll all agree Maurice did a great job with the track this year. I really like that track. But Zack (allhailfaz13) is right. There are a lot of Pure stocks that are built and that go to Springport, but the reason why you couldn't get them all to the track on the same week is because nobody wants to go to the track ever week and watch the same car win every week.

i think u nit the nail on the head Aaron
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zach (allhailfaz),

Here's the part you and some others don't understand: The Pure Stocks don't have to change their cars around. They can leave them just as they are with the street radial tires and all. They will all end up racing each other in the main event that they qualify for because they all run about the same speed. Faster cars will be in a faster main event. You don't need to put racing tires on the car.

-Maurice
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circle8track



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd, no my problem isn't that I won't have a fast A main car. My car will probably be the fastest C main car. That isn't the problem. If you read through the post you would understand. I also read through and saw the point structure. I only read the Spartan, pure stock and classifieds on here. The point is that the Pure Stock is a entry level class meaning that you don't have to have a ton of money into your car to be competitive. I have a House payment, a car payment and all my other bills and my race car is just a hobby to me. I don't need to spend $400 on tires to race. My car is legal and competitive at at least 5 race tracks that it has been to. The ABC is just going to let the cheater cars be legal and still dominate. Just for reference I bet there was more different feature winners at Spartan than there was at Springport, proving that it is more competitive. Either way, I'm done with this post, you guys do what you feel you need to and let a rookie pony driver have the biggest opinion on a topic that has nothing to do with him. Why don't we ABC the pony stocks??
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monzilla80



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Holt

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the concept that is hard to grasp is that the truly "PURE STOCK" race cars will be slow and even end up in the back of the C main. Or any race for that matter. Do you think honestly that a non-stock vehicle running slow in the B main will put more money into the car to go faster and compete or just keep it slow and win the C main every week?

Speed = Money + Time invested.

Big fish little pond vs. goldfish in an ocean. I know what everone says vs. what everyone will really do when it comes to a trophy.
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