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Proposed 08 Tire Rule
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wayfastwhitey



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I think about it some more, I agree with oz 100%, and I think it's fair to the guys that can't make the test. The only thing left to consider, in my opinion, is how to address travelers that may not be there for the first week. Will there be allowances for 4 tires for RnR4 and the Harvest (or other specials)? I know my dad is planning on RnR4 but probably not opening night at either track.

Amen on the "thanks for listening" part too. It's pretty refreshing for me to see a promoter inspire open thought and fairness for his racers, makes me feel confident that I made the right decision for this season, thanks.

oz, I bet we'll take you up on the tires. once the car is back together we'll need some to roll it out of the shop and get it scaled and squared. thanks bro.
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oz



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is kinda tricky to deal with travelers and make all the regulars happy at the same time.I personally wouldn't mind if a traveler showed up and was allowed to buy as many tires as they need new up to 4.Or they could ask to buy some used tires from anybody willing to sell them.I think this tire is consistent enough were they really wouldn't have that significant of an advantage over people with used tires.And if for whatever reason they did kick everyones tails,they would be more likely to show up next week because they have tires now and kicked butt the week before so they are excited about their experience at Spartan Speedway and want to come every week now.But then only one tire a night for them after their first week there.As far as the invite shows go where there is no track registration required such as Brian's race and R&R,those shows are the ones that do get the most travelers so it might be best to allow everybody on those races to buy four tires so everybody feels fair about it.What you could do which would be cool in my opinion is not allow any tires to be purchased for the next 3 weeks after these open invite shows.That would keep with the 1 tire a night theme yet allow everyone to have 4 fresh tires if they so desire for the big shows.
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Lack o Diesel



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 228
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Practice tires are just that. Can we really count tires before our season officially starts? In my opinion no. Just because I buy tires there it does not mean I'm running them at Spartan. What I see is a lot of rules that simulate an impound. You guys want full control of tires yet they can be taken home. Which is not in control. One tire a night is the only form of restriction I see fit. If someone comes in mid season and needs tires let's treat it like USA does. 2 new and 2 used, you pick where you put'em. Everyone says these tires are consistent. So if someone wants to pool them that's there deal. Others may want to buy one when they really need it. But really, I don't think you can tell me I can't run my practice tires or that it hurts me on opening night. Say I go to practice at Spartan on Sat., Sun., then I go Springport for 2 thursdays. Maybe I've found out that I have a good consistent set that I want to put in the corner for a special. I should be allowed. What about the 100 lap race, can buy 4 that night, or the night after? That's 3 full features in one night. And to only be able to replace 1 the next week. Let's be real. There have been a lot of guys say that they get a lot of time out of this tire. But there are quite a few that buy more than they admit later. Some days I wish I would have kept a log as to who and when they put on stickers. Maybe people should pay more attention to who goes up and gets tires. It happens more than some teams admit.

The way I see it is like this. Don't give me the ability to buy tires and then tell me what I can and cannot do with them. If that's the case we need an impound. Then all of these restrictions would actually make sense. We can keep track of serial numbers and such, but really all we're doing is impounding with out actually doing it. So yeah a guy is bringing back the same tires, but they've been on the machine all week. So for the guys that want to do this legal the only way to keep up is buy tires, but now I can only get one. Now I'm at the dis advantage. Just restrict how many we can buy a night and leave it at that, or make room in the trailer for our tires.


Just my 6 cents
Perry
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governor72



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: tires Reply with quote

I was just reading a post on the tire rules questions on the Sportsman form and got to thinking.

Why not use the SS tire on the lefts and the 704 on the rights?

The SS tire did not have a wear problem on LS only right.

The RS tires could be painted with a stencil like tire's that come out of impound @ Kalamazoo.

This would allow all used tire inventory's to be used up.

Ya I know, some have some larger SS rights, but you could setup to use them on the LF.

Just some thoughts I had.

What do others think?

The, Governor / Dan Logan
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wayfastwhitey



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: tires Reply with quote

governor wrote:
I was just reading a post on the tire rules questions on the Sportsman form and got to thinking.

Why not use the SS tire on the lefts and the 704 on the rights?

The SS tire did not have a wear problem on LS only right.

The RS tires could be painted with a stencil like tire's that come out of impound @ Kalamazoo.

This would allow all used tire inventory's to be used up.

Ya I know, some have some larger SS rights, but you could setup to use them on the LF.

Just some thoughts I had.

What do others think?

The, Governor / Dan Logan


How long before I can sneak one in on the RR?

I like the simplicity of 1 tire, but that's just me.

Perry,
I know this will sound jaded from me, but I think the idea is to level the field, everyone should start the season on the same page. If everyone is limited on tire purchases, then guys that have been racing at Spartan for a couple seasons and have tires left over that are usable have an advantage over the guy that has to start from square 1. Even if that advantage is just having junk tires to practice on at the beginning of the season, or having that spare RF in case someone gets a flat after buying their first 4 tires on opening night. That's not equal for all, especially if there are any true rookies that have no tires, no idea how to conserve them, AND they are limited to 1 a night.

These are all issues that are caused by tire limits, and I'm glad that Jim is listening to this before making a hard and fast rule and washing his hands of it.
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lilhemi



Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 208
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never though in a million years I would see this kind of a problem with: 'People and there Rubbers'. Laughing - Laughing - Laughing

Dave.
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Proud sponsor of Spartan Speedway. Along with 9 short track cars: 3 mods, 1 Spartan Stock, 4 Ponys, 1 School Bus.

http://myspace.com/lilhemi64
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61SSracer



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Holt, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way to go DAVE ~ now people are going to be going to the tire shack and asking for a MAGNUM for the RR ! ! LOL

CHUCK
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mod911



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run the 970 and stay out of the tire impounding and swapping business and run the track and leave tires up to the racers. This is only a cover for being able to sell tires that we do not need or want..At a profit to themselves.
Last years tires were just fine and if you can't make one last every tire you put on your car will have the same issue.
Sell visitors used junk to race with will not bring any of them there. The ones who talk the most do not even race so when they do not show up to support your track you will know for yourself they were talking sh*t. Don't let these people influence real racing decisions.
Most will be happy to know I will not be there even once to race on those new/old tires. I am tired of this changing tires all the time.Why does Spartan want to chase away racers when we don't have enough most nights? Because those few who go along with anything want it so they can have as little competition as possible. Maybe when the field is all semi-feature rookies in the feature and a first time racer can win a feature from the front row they will all be happy. What happen to competition?
Why not add 500# to anyone not in the click? That would help eliminate anyone who could win from coming at all. I will not pay to watch half the field spin out by themselves every race like most do anyway.
Quit trying to fix the outcome and promote competition,be a promoter instead of a discourager of seasoned racers. You cannot help lappers win,they have to do the required work and spent the required time and money to do that themselves.
Maybe I could be handicapped enough to play with Tiger Woods and win the first time out and people would flock to watch me play my handicap game. Why should he win all the time just cause he has put his life into it? That is not fair,maybe he should use my old clubs and balls when he plays in the Buick Open in Flint this year.
This thing about work,practice,learning and effort should be thrown out for all sports not just Spartan racing.
If a rookie cannot win as much as a lifetime player something is wrong/not fair.
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oz



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After thinking about it a little more maybe it isn't fair to limit the amount of tires people buy.There are rookies and people that just can't get there cars hooked up that require as many hot laps as they can get.For that reason they will burn through way more rubber due to the fact that they are running more laps on their tires and a poor handling car eats up tires way faster than a hooked up machine.Also I've always been under the impression that Wayne kicks money into the points fund based on the volume of tires he sells.So that would result in a bigger point fund in theory. I also like the idea of only running on the 704's. If you have any good street stock tires left then use them up in practice or sell them to a street stocker. I personally am glad they are switching to a harder compound tire it will last twice as long or more than that street stock tire and still be competitive.I think the racing on the track will be much improved as well with much more passing due to the fact that the tires will have less grip.Should be a great season regardless of whatever Jim choses to do about tires.Lets go racin,can't wait
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mod911



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changing tires has never had any effect on competition. Believing that will just cost money every time you switch. So what is being offered up is that if we raced on spare tire donuts we could race 20 wide and everyone wins cause no one can go faster than everyone else. As long as we have the same tire quit crying about being disadvantaged by tires. Only a few certain people had tire troubles not everyone as some here say,that is &*%$. Used s-s went 100 laps and won,clue phone ringing.
So if we qualify at 13.80-14.50 instead of 13.40-13.90 as we did last year that will make everyone conpetitive? Does this mean there will be no slow cars? How does less grip translate to better racing?
Just admit that the main deal is keeping the car count down by adding great expense to occasaional and off night racers and maybe some who would come every night if they didn't have to switch set ups every time just for one track.
Stupid move. Killing the mods slowly.
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KT



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dick why do you think tracks are trying to keep car counts down? I'm not going to argue with you, I just don't understand this logic. Please don't say "because they are cheating" or "they have their click". How about explaining in detail why you think tracks are trying to keep car counts down. Not that their rules are stupid, why they are trying to keep car counts down. I have not always agreed with what Jim has done but I didn't ever think he was trying to keep car counts down.
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oz



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dick,
I think soft tires tightens the field up more because the amount of grip that the soft tires have lets junk setups still be fairly competitive as long as the driver can drive.Racing on hard tires throws in more variables.Racing on hard tires makes it so you don't have to have over 400 horse to be competitive if you handle good.The harder the tire the less motor you need and that saves money.Hard tires make to much motor make you go slower,and that saves money.Hard tires make a good handling car be way faster than a poor handling car which makes the racing bettter because there is way more passing .Hard tires seperate the fast cars from the slow cars so there is more passing .Of course there will still be slow cars,they will just be slower and that is why less grip equals better racing because there will be more passing .Look at the qualifing times from last year.Most of the races the top ten qualifiers were within a 10th of a second.When we raced on the MMA tire the cars all weren't that tight.When the top ten cars qualify so close there obviously isn't gonna be much passing.Fans like to see passing.I will race on any tire and not ever complain about being at a disadvantage as long as my competition is on the same tire.It's just common sense to me that if half the field is within a tenth of a second that in a 35 lap feature you're not gonna see much passing.If the fields qualifing times are spread out more then your gonna see a hell of a good feature,that is if you like to pass a bunch of race cars and or watch a bunch of race cars passing each other.
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mod911



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not say Jim was trying to keep car counts down but listening to homies and rookies has killed the car count anyway. Ask him,he knows that now after the street stock slaughter last year.
It is YOU DRIVERS who want counts killed so you can race every time you go to the track whether you are fast or slow as long as YOU can race and EVERYONE else is ruled out form competition. Is that clear or should you read it again. YOU DRIVERS are the problem because you ask for rules to keep many cars away or you go along with them blindly.
There is no magic tire that will make slackers fast. We have slow and fast cars no matter what tire we run. Lets race on donuts and have a 20 way tie for first place so noone feels left out. Racing is competitive if that is understandable. PLay bingo if you want to have random winners.
Do not confuse my words,Jim is not the problem, the racers who only race Spartan and want to make the field at the cost of ruling everyone else out and don't care if racing dies as long as they make the show.You are the problem.
In order to have passing you have to have slower cars,period. Real life situation there has to be losers to have winners.
Read the article in Speedway mag last month about this very subject and know that someone intelligent and seasoned says the same thing.
Keep promoters out of how much it cost to race,its none of their business just like their finances of the track are none of our business,lets all mind our own business and not try to legislate fairness in effort and competitiveness into racing.
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Lack o Diesel



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 228
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm going to say is this....

Dick try attending a friggen meeting once! It gets really old hearing this crap when you won't participate, you'll just badger after the fact. Did you know that the "homies and rookies" have been asking for the 970, probably not because..........oh yeah you don't show up to badger in person. This was our option, we're making the best of it. No driver asked Jim to cut the cost of our division. Get educated on the subject. Just where do you get your info anyway, because maybe they need to pay better attention. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of some huge discussion and or argument. This is my one and only post to "you" on this subject. But you keep calling us all the "homies, the click, the locals" Get over that. We're trying for the common goal. One tire! Then we can race where ever we want. SMS is already allowing them for next year with minor modifications.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Top 10 Homies in the Modified Division
at Spartan Speedway in 2007

  1. Larry Wallace #55
  2. Chris Ozanich #0z
  3. Dan Loughan #72
  4. Leroy Ellis #50
  5. William Heeney Jr #1H
  6. Ron Parish #31
  7. Richard Maurer #911
  8. Dusty Carl #17
  9. Nyle Weiler #27
  10. Bill Butler #M1


Please note the 7th place homie. Smile

-Maurice
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