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class revamp
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Jerry Garland



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep these little thoughts in mind when messing with a set of rules for a class: 1) Changes cost money!! doesnt matter who or what or how, it will cost money.
2) With Changes comes anger. When you anger people they tend not to come back. When drivers dont come back that takes away from a division and then the downward spiral begins. Just look at the sportsman division.

We all want things for the better, but sometimes thinking that it is going to help you will sometimes hurt you. Think it thru and walk on a very fine line because this is a beginner division and yes there are some with really nice and fast cars in this division BUT you have to think of OTHERS before stepping on the next step. Allowing other cars into the division to compete with the neons is the main thing in my opionion. There really isnt a good way about this. BUT it needs to be done because the older model cars cant compete unless they are well prepped. About five years ago it was told to certain individuals that this class was going to be all neons when they were allowed and the last time I checked (with my last visit this past summer) I saw all neons in the division.
Leave the wheels and tires alone. thats a simple fact, because it was argued for many years when I ran the division. run the 790's on special nights. Safety wheels are a smart thing but then that brings up other questions on backspacing and what should and shouldnt be allowed and it costs money.
So take the message with a grain of salt and think about it. I've been there and done that. But you all have seen thru the years what happens when money gets into the fray!

now stepping off of soap box--- thanks

Jerry Garland
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weasal30



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our tire bill for this year was just under $1000.00 for the tires we raced at on spartan, that with only losing 1 to a cut down tire on a Sunday show. all the rest were just worn out tires, a new shaved sumi would only make it 2 weeks as a right front and then need to be moved and replaced with a new one. That is 104 laps of track time and it would need to be replaced. Our right front 790 has over 600 laps on it and is going to have another 150-200 after this weekend at kzoo, so to me baring they don't get cut, but that is a chance you take with any tire, they are cheaper in the long run. As for the wheel offset, ours are 3 inch, i would not allow the 3 inch off set but make a it 4 inch max, i believe the 3 is a little to much. This has been my experience with the tires this year as my pocket book hurt bad because of the sumi tire that we had to run it just wears out to fast.
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JRJ



Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We ran on the same set of tires all year, did swap out right front after harvest with a tire that was not new. She stayed very compitive with the group. We also ran the same tires at the Owosso Nationals and did great, 11th fastest out of 29 cars 3rd in our heat and 9th in the feature. I guess if some people feel they have to change out their tires more often so be it, we did finish pretty good this year, 9th in points.
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mod32



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, the class with the best car count on a regular night and there's talk about changes!? Sometimes change is needed but if it aint broke don't fix it! I'm glad I run a mod because the rules haven't changed much in the last 20 years.
Before long it'll b cheaper to run a mod than it will to run a pony.
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Russ posted about V-6's in the other thread..

I am curious about this also.

I heard they might be coming back and/or that they might be combined with the A-Main Pony's..

Has there been an official ruling on that yet ?
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 906

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is fair to say that everyone should not expect to see a lot of changes in the Pony division. We would like to open the division up to allow for some other makes and models to compete, hoping to increase car counts, plus continue to run the cars that we already have.

We may have to start the season out with one division and then split part of the way through the season into two. I really can't tell until the season starts up. The division is fine now the way it is but I think we can open it up some with out making any rule changes that require much if any work. There is more of a spread in times now than ever before and that does need to be looked at. In some divisions we call it a consi but in this case the faster cars would run in one feature and the cars turning slower times would run in the second. A lot will depend on there being enough cars to split into two features.

Every Pony driver should already know that they will also be reguired to install mufflers that keep their car below the 95 db level.
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daytonapony



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

Here is something to think about for the pony class going to an A/B format.

You wouldn't "lose" any cars but could open up what you get by double or more.

If you go to a "fast" A main you could open the rules enough to attract Mustangs/RWD's from other tracks. There are ALOT of these cars sitting around. We proved the last 2 races that a basically stock Neon on good tires can run with/ahead of a built Mustang.

If you have the A rules read simple yet open I can venture to say at least 4 of the cars I help would run in the class. Make the engine rules simple, the trans rules open, and dictate the 790 as the spec tire on a 8 inch rim. Let any car in, make them weight the same, and let the racers sort out what to build. If a car shows up that is not legal for the B and is way too fast to run that feature they won't be turned away!!

The KEY to making this work would be the "B" cars. Keep the rules like they are now only ENFORCE them. If a car is found with a minor infraction (something fixable that night) they can fix it and run with the B cars starting scratch. A "major" infraction and they get zero points and have to run with the "A" cars. That way alllll of the people who complain about so and so cheating could have their car and the other car teched. Anything illegal and they get bumped. Racers would then know they are on even ground with the other races, win or lose.

No mid pack/front runner in the B will want to loose their points and run in the back of the A. It will help keep the B cars under the rules but level the playing field. I would suggest instead of A and B call it Mini Stock's and Pony Stocks.

If you were do do it like that NOONE would "have" to buy ANYTHING to race. They can take their legal car and run it. If they WANTED to go faster they can. The only way they would be forced to buy/build anything different is if their car is not legal to begin with.

I can't promise anything more then myself but if you allow bigger motors, better suspensions, and race tires I will show up opening night ready to run!!
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:
I think it is fair to say that everyone should not expect to see a lot of changes in the Pony division. We would like to open the division up to allow for some other makes and models to compete, hoping to increase car counts, plus continue to run the cars that we already have.


Jim, I see that Owosso Speedway today announced that they are going to continue to run their 4 & 6 cylinder cars together.

http://www.mstrc.com/index.php?showtopic=30520&view=findpost&p=183966

Sure would like to see a place to race on Friday's to go with our scheduled Saturdays.
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cherokee



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought Jim;

Why not pick up some of these pony's that are for sale and rent them out to help keep up the car count.
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Dirt63



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of liability with renting a racecar.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 906

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can hardly find time to keep the walls painted, anything with more maintenance makes me want to run away.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 906

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules for the Pony division will be posted soon but here are some of the PROPOSED changes. There are not very many. Please remember these are proposed at this time but unless I am missing something important or have made a major blunder this should give you a head start for next season.

I know many wanted to see wholesale changes but in my opinion that would have not been good for the division over all. With this system faster cars will race faster cars and the slower cars will race with their peers as well. These are baby steps that will allow a few more makes and models to participate and should not cost any of our current drivers any extra money or even more importantly no 4 cyl. car that has or is racing at Spartan will be obsolete, on the contrary they will now be competetive.

The A & B divisions will have different point systems. The system will allow for cars to move back and forth a little with out hurting their position in standings. It will also allow us to run them together or seperate. Details later.

The split will come in a logical and reasonable spot based on qualifying times. Details later.

There may be a champonship shoot out similiar to the Lates and Mods. but we have to study that more also.

Other hi-lites:

tires: Any DOT max width 195, minimum 70 series, all four must be the same size. No race tires.

4 cyl. only, manufactured by GM, Saturn, Chrysler or Ford. Some multi-valve engines will not be allowed so check before buying or building. I don't have a list of them right now.

You may use a stock converter that locks up.

Weights are pre-race. 2350lbs. Neon 2450 lbs. All dohc 16 valve must weigh 2500 lbs w/ rs minimum 1200 lbs.

All manual shifts rs minimum 1200lbs.

Neons, any DOHC or any multi-valve max exhaust 1.5 in OD.

The end of the exhaust must be visible from standing next to the car.

The 95 db will be atched closely next season. Many cars may need to add a muffler, probably most of the faster cars, glass packs will be ok.

Please send your comments via email to info@spartanspeedway.com.
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just have one question and its about the adjustible rearend for the neons are they going to be allowed. remeber that they help the cars handly alot better plus it make the racing alot better Laughing Laughing Laughing

i have them on my car right now and we are tring to make plans for next year.

thanks Marq Eaton
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todd metz sr.



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JIM,

Glad to see you are being proactice and opening up the rules some.

Just a suggestion, keep the 300 or higher treadwear rating for tires or we will be forced into some that would cost WAY too much to be used in this class.

The 1.5 inch exhaust, will that be just at the end and not the entire length, like we had this past season?

One other exhaust question, may we have the exhaust visible from the rear of the car or does it need to be turned out the side?

The reason I ask is because some are already running out the rear and can be easily measured from outside the car without jacking it up and crawling under to measure.

Our cars were made with the restrictor to take on and off for loading. If we would leave it on when loading it would drag and I was going to run it out the back instead so that I did not need to remove it every time I loaded the car.

I am personally happy to see that you chose to not run v-6 cars with the 4 cylinder cars. I know that we can out run them, I just do not like the weight difference.

If I understand your post, the only difference between the a and b divisions will be the times run. Is this correct?

One last question, IF no one else buys and open's Springport and you run races there in 2010, will you use the same rules as Spartan?

Thank you in advance for your reply to my questions.

Todd Sr.
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If you are not having fun while racing, Adjustments are definitely needed !!!!!
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are Safety Wheels going to be added to the required safety equipment for 2010 ?

I know Mufflers and Raceivers are going to be mandatory, but are the Rims going to be also.

If not mandatory, are they allowed ?
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