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class revamp
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 907

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Todd, Sorry for the delay, between the bleachers and a trip I had committed to I ran out of time.

The 1.5 inch exhaust rule will be the same as last season except that it must be able to be measured with out crawling under the car. I need the tec to be able to walk up and measure all systems easily so we can stay on top of this very important issue. It sounds like yours should be OK.

You are correct about the A and B divisions in that they have the same rules. They can actually run together if car counts are not where we want them to be but that will not be our first choice. If they do run together on a given night there will be two winners. The point system for the B division will accommodate that as well. Where we make the split will become clearer as the season goes on, the split will likely be where it makes the most sense. This area will require some patience from the drivers at least until we get some unknowns sorted out. The drivers and the track will just need to work together for the betterment of the Pony division.

As far as SMS goes I am not sure what to do. First goal is to sell, second is to lease it out for the season or for special shows and if neither work out we will need to run a few specials our selves.


Patrick, I am not sure on the race safety wheels. What are the competitive advantages and the additional cost?
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:

Patrick, I am not sure on the race safety wheels. What are the competitive advantages and the additional cost?


Safety Wheels can be purchased for about $70.

They can be purchased with a stock amount of back spacing or with a little extra.

The area tracks which require safety wheels (Berlin, Owosso, Flat Rock) on FWD cars also mandate stock offset.. this is generally tech'd by saying no part of the tire can extend beyond the fender of the car.

I think they are a small competitive advantage to teams that have them, I know they are a tremendous safety improvement.
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just keep adding more more money big safety factor ??? just another way to add more cheat neat off setting the tires at additional cost to everyone
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rooster07



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

id rather spend more money on safety than spending it on the car to make it faster. If that right front breaks you can go into the wall or into other cars and that will cost a whole lot more than the safety rim. I ran 1 at spartan and didnt see a difference from the safety rim and the stock rim except 1 wont break on the track.
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can I ask a question ? how many ponys have you seen lose the front rim ?? and in how many years have they been running them with STOCK RIMS ? like i said another way to cheat neat and added expense hell you can hit the wall cause of fluid on the track I know this way to well so lets slow down on the spending of this class everyone wants to change rules every 2 minutes.. for example crystal speedway hasnt changed there rules in years and they get a ton of cars huh imagine that NO CHANGES OF RULES and they get the cars and if you go there and try to change the rules or you are different then the rules set you pack it up and go home that simple....... JUST MY OPINION Ken
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allhailfaz13



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well actually jimmy broke 5 or 6... u have to be on the edge and pushing your car to brake one... and just ask jimmy u come out of the corner and that breaks and you go in to the wall ... u will want the tire... and 70 bucks isnt that bad to pay to not total your car think of it that way your actually saving money.. and if u plan on going to anyother tracks like owasso u need to have them anyway so why not make it to where were close to the same rules as other tracks and travel some times.. actually i think lex broke the center of a weel out too..
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todd metz sr.



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read this thread for a while and not said too much to let everyone else have a say too.

Here are a few of my thoughts..........

It was a bad thing to have to buy racing/safety wheels when the talk was using them along with the 790 Hoosier's.
It was going to cost " $1,000 " to do......
The 790's are less than $400 for a set, so that would make the rims $150.00 each.........I paid $75.00 each for ours Shipped. There are still some for sale at Discount Tire in Lansing from that order.

The stock rims for a Neon are 5.5 to 6.0 inches wide. Are the racing rims going to be 5.5 inches wide? Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing yeah sure.....

I just bought stock Neon rims from Parts Galore in Detroit for less than $7.00 each and if I had taken along some junk ones for the core exchange it would of cost less than $6.00 each. ( you pull it yards are the best for us on a budget ).
The rims are not measured anyhow, I saw more than 1 pony car from other tracks come with widened rims. Not calling anyone out, Just stating facts.

I have busted a front rim this year at Owosso. It was one that was on my car when I hit the wall at Springport ( the rim hit the wall too ).

I did not think about that or it would of not gotten put on the front of my car.

It was a Shadow rim, one of the heavier stock ones.

I have not heard of a Neon rim breaking on the track, hubs yes, Neon rims no.

Lex broke a Caviler style rim, not a Neon rim. We ( along with others ) even tried to tell him to NOT run the Cavi rims on right front, they are NOT strong enough to be run there.

I have and always will be for safety in our sport.

Racing rims are a good thing IF they are MEASURED and IF they are the proper width and offset.

For the price of 1 safety rim I can buy a lot of stock Neon rims. I am sure that the stock rims will break before a racing rim will but I am not convinced that we have gotten to the limits of the stock Neon rims.

An extra $75 or more for each rim for our class is something to think about before being mandated. Most would buy at least 2 so they could have a spare incase of a flat.

I think ( in my opinion for what it is worth ) the ones that race or own cars that are raced at Spartan are the ones that should be listened to.
Everyone has answers, if they are not involved in the class keep that in mind when weighing the value of their imput.

I always consider who is giving me advise and how much stock I put into it.

I am a firm believer that no matter what the rules are, some will be happy and some will not be happy. That is the way it is at EVERY track in EVERY class all across America.

Make the rules, post them, ENFORCE them and people will come and race.
Change the rules in midseason and carcounts will dwindell.
Leave rules alone for the entire season and carcount will increase.

Whatever the rules end up being, racere will decide on an individual basis if they want to race at that track or not.

One thing to remember about changing this pony class much...........
When the top running Spartan pony cars go to other tracks they usually dominate. When the top pony cars come from other tracks, they very, very seldom dominate at Spartan.

The Spartan pony cars and drivers are some of the most competative and best around. I am not putting ANY of the other cars or drivers down, just stating facts.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

Todd Sr.
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"Yogi"
2008 Springport Speedway Rookie of the Year
2008 Springport Speedway Track Champion
1st and only automatic pony in the 15's
Team Never Dead Racing Team Beacon
If you are not having fun while racing, Adjustments are definitely needed !!!!!
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bigboiii22



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lex has broke 3 different rims on three different cars in 3 different years and never have we used a cavalier rim and never did anyone say to him or me before it broke that it was going to break. All 3 times Lex stoped only a couple feet from the wall he was lucky but I could see how you could hit the wall hard from one of them breaking, so I think a safety wheel should be allowed if you want but not manditory . I would buy one
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive always thought that a safety wheel should be used on the right front. If the safety wheel is the same width and same offset as a stock wheel there is no speed advantage. I would buy a safety wheel if I was still racing, I'd probably buy two just so I would have a extra in case of a flat.

John
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daytonapony



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigboiii22 wrote:
Lex has broke 3 different rims on three different cars in 3 different years and never have we used a cavalier rim and never did anyone say to him or me before it broke that it was going to break. All 3 times Lex stoped only a couple feet from the wall he was lucky but I could see how you could hit the wall hard from one of them breaking, so I think a safety wheel should be allowed if you want but not manditory . I would buy one


It was mentioned a few times when he was down hanging out in our pits. It's not that it was a Cavi rim but a Cavi "style" rim. It wasn't anything we made a huge point to try and tell him, just mentioned a few times.

The rims with many bigger holes around the outside are traditionally weaker then the ones with only like 6 or so holes.

The one we broke at Owosso was one of the Shadow rims with the tiny holes. The "strongest" (and heaviest!!) If Owosso had a backstretch wall we probably would have totaled the car out a week sooner!!

Breaking a wheel is no joke and I'll run a safety wheel if their allowed. I'll also run the widest and most offest I can legally run so those two "specs" need to be in the rules IMO
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2010 and 2011 Pony stock Track Champion
15.23 Fastest FWD lap ever at Spartan on fun night.
15.872 Fastest pony stock lap during the season.
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if we have to go to safety rims I think they all should be the same size off set and width for all and only be allowed on the right front maybe Jim can get a better deal on these rims and sell them to the drivers......
I do understand safety factor but it seams to me the cavi rims is the cause of the problem so maybe just ban them rims to keep the cost down
its true you hit the wall your done most of the time safety rim or not that wall dont move
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:
Are safety rims available for all (what we think of) as American made cars?

They cost about 70.00?

They come in the same size as stock? No off set, same width?


These are in-stock at Perfect Circle in Grand Rapids, they can be ordered from RacingPartSales.com (that is Jeff Parish's Speed Shop) and be delivered in 7 days.



http://diamondracingwheels.com/challenger.html

Same Wheel is Available in 15" sizes and all wheel patterns

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weasal30



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are the wheels that we have our Hoosiers mounted on and they work great. I feel much more confident turning her loose on the track with these wheels bolted on then i do when the stocks are on. I would not be able to use mine because they are 3" offset and the max i think that should be allowed is a 4", so mine would not be legal but i would buy another set in 4" for the stock tires in a minute. I also think that they should be allowed on the right front only as running them on all 4 corners gets expensive and unnecessary unless you want to be able to get more left side weight by using a different offset on the left..
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2nd place points SMS 2010
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todd metz sr.



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the availability of the racing/safety rims they can also be purchased through Discoubt Tire in Lansing on the west side by WalMart and Lowes.

Ask for the manager, Steve, and tell him I sent you and he will give you a better deal.
He is looking to put together a group buy on the rims and on some Sunitomo's for the 2010 season. Anyone at all that wants to buy at a discounted price should check with him.

You can also call Diamond direct and ask for Bill the owner, and he will personally help you out. He is a very hands on owner and called me personally when he had a couple of questions about our order last year.

One thing thet NEEDS to be done is that the tracks HAVE TO get together and decide on an acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET to run. If these are not SPECIFIED by the tracks there will be some that are way too wide.

It is funny to me personally how these racing ( safety ) rims are turning into such a big deal, and will end up being allowed and costing more money for this inexpensive Shocked pony class.

Oh well like I have said before, when the rules are posted, we ( the racers ) will decide if we can live with them and race or if we need to go elsewhere. Same decision's everyone must make at every track all the time.

Jim,

If/when you decide to allow the racing rims in the pony class PLEASE, PLEASE specify the acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET allowed. If you do not I forsee one heck of a mess and a lot of headaches with the wrong sizes being purchased.

Also please specify where they can be placed on the cars. All 4 corners or just the right front?

And of course the sooner the better so that budgets can be adjusted for the racing rims cost's .

Just some more of my thoughts and opions.

Todd Sr.
_________________
"Yogi"
2008 Springport Speedway Rookie of the Year
2008 Springport Speedway Track Champion
1st and only automatic pony in the 15's
Team Never Dead Racing Team Beacon
If you are not having fun while racing, Adjustments are definitely needed !!!!!
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Yogi...

"One thing that NEEDS to be done is that the tracks HAVE TO get together and decide on an acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET to run. If these are not SPECIFIED by the tracks there will be some that are way too wide."

The Only acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET should be same as STOCK !! No exceptions.

John
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