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class revamp
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what owosso rule said that the safty rim must have the stock ofset and be 6IN. wide.

that what matt and i bought last year for owosso

you want to buy the Racer series from diamnd not the challenger series just a FYI
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd metz sr. wrote:
I have read this thread for a while and not said too much to let everyone else have a say too.

Here are a few of my thoughts..........

It was a bad thing to have to buy racing/safety wheels when the talk was using them along with the 790 Hoosier's.
It was going to cost " $1,000 " to do......
The 790's are less than $400 for a set, so that would make the rims $150.00 each.........I paid $75.00 each for ours Shipped. There are still some for sale at Discount Tire in Lansing from that order.

The stock rims for a Neon are 5.5 to 6.0 inches wide. Are the racing rims going to be 5.5 inches wide? Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing yeah sure.....

I just bought stock Neon rims from Parts Galore in Detroit for less than $7.00 each and if I had taken along some junk ones for the core exchange it would of cost less than $6.00 each. ( you pull it yards are the best for us on a budget ).
The rims are not measured anyhow, I saw more than 1 pony car from other tracks come with widened rims. Not calling anyone out, Just stating facts.

I have busted a front rim this year at Owosso. It was one that was on my car when I hit the wall at Springport ( the rim hit the wall too ).

I did not think about that or it would of not gotten put on the front of my car.

It was a Shadow rim, one of the heavier stock ones.

I have not heard of a Neon rim breaking on the track, hubs yes, Neon rims no.

Lex broke a Caviler style rim, not a Neon rim. We ( along with others ) even tried to tell him to NOT run the Cavi rims on right front, they are NOT strong enough to be run there.

I have and always will be for safety in our sport.

Racing rims are a good thing IF they are MEASURED and IF they are the proper width and offset.

For the price of 1 safety rim I can buy a lot of stock Neon rims. I am sure that the stock rims will break before a racing rim will but I am not convinced that we have gotten to the limits of the stock Neon rims.

An extra $75 or more for each rim for our class is something to think about before being mandated. Most would buy at least 2 so they could have a spare incase of a flat.

I think ( in my opinion for what it is worth ) the ones that race or own cars that are raced at Spartan are the ones that should be listened to.
Everyone has answers, if they are not involved in the class keep that in mind when weighing the value of their imput.

I always consider who is giving me advise and how much stock I put into it.

I am a firm believer that no matter what the rules are, some will be happy and some will not be happy. That is the way it is at EVERY track in EVERY class all across America.

Make the rules, post them, ENFORCE them and people will come and race.
Change the rules in midseason and carcounts will dwindell.
Leave rules alone for the entire season and carcount will increase.

Whatever the rules end up being, racere will decide on an individual basis if they want to race at that track or not.

One thing to remember about changing this pony class much...........
When the top running Spartan pony cars go to other tracks they usually dominate. When the top pony cars come from other tracks, they very, very seldom dominate at Spartan.

The Spartan pony cars and drivers are some of the most competative and best around. I am not putting ANY of the other cars or drivers down, just stating facts.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

Todd Sr.


Great post Todd, lots of great points,

here is another thread for other/all tracks on the same stuff

http://www.mstrc.com/index.php?showtopic=30814&st=0&start=0

http://www.mstrc.com/index.php?showforum=7

Also,,

sombody call Brant at Marsh racing wheels,,and get the info on FWD racing rims,,,they are custom racing wheel maker,,,

http://www.mrw-wheels.com/

http://rockcrawler-mrt.com/boltpatternref.html

http://www.mrt-wheels.com/catpages/offset01.html
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goinincircles22 wrote:
I agree with Yogi...

"One thing that NEEDS to be done is that the tracks HAVE TO get together and decide on an acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET to run. If these are not SPECIFIED by the tracks there will be some that are way too wide."

The Only acceptable WIDTH and OFFSET should be same as STOCK !! No exceptions.

John


Yes, Yes, Yes, in order to avoid a big can of worms
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marq Eaton #12 wrote:
what owosso rule said that the safty rim must have the stock ofset and be 6IN. wide.

that what matt and i bought last year for owosso

you want to buy the Racer series from diamnd not the challenger series just a FYI


how much $$$ a piece with shipping and handling?
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marc.. Diamond doesn't list a "Racer Series" do you mean SS Series ?
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they must of changed the name then. i want to say like 80 bucks but i really don't remeber through
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stock car series
14 x 6" - $56.25 plus shipping

when you order make sure you let them know that it for a FWD car add 2 or 3 pounds to the wheel

http://www.diamondracingwheels.com/stockcar.html
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On RaceTalk this evening Edson Rowley said that Spartan is considering open computer rules for 2010 ?

Is that true ?

I think that would be a horrible idea.. I realize the need for A and B classes and I think that bringing in the DOHC 16v cars is a great idea.. but open computers ?

That'd be nuts !
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so. The Pony (A or B) will still be a stock division. I do realize that teching needs more focus and we have every intention of doing so. Stock, Stock and Stock. If we weren't serious about stock we would have allowed racing tires.
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listening to a replay, a caller asked Edson about open computers, he didn't bring it up.. my bad for not listening better.

Glad to hear it isn't being considered.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to post what we have arrived at in regards to the A and B format. I am posting this because I think it is a complicated issue and I am asking people that are familiar with the issue and what we are trying to accomplish to think of a few scenarios and see just how this procedure might work, in their opinion.

There are a few things to keep in mind:
1. The Pony division was originally perceived as a beginner class but now is viewed as an affordable option to racing as well as a great division to start in. Thus the huge separation in speeds, talent, money etc.

2. The B division should be a division that anyone can feel comfortable in, learn in, race with a budget in mind, be able to use a car that may not be competitive with some of the faster makes and models.

3. There will be issues that come up that were not forseen and we may need to make some modifications to the process as we go forward. This is a test.

4. This system must be as fair and simple as possible.

5. We may not see immediate car count increases, we may need to be patient.


A and B race format: (this is revised from earlier, it is less complicated)

All cars will qualify and the Division will be split in half. Both fields will be total inverts. More than 18 cars we will run two features. B cars will start behind A cars and there will be double file restarts. The points system has been modified to allow for the few cars that might flip back or forward.

A Points:
1. 20
2. 19
3. 18
4. 17
5. 16
6. 15

and so on

B points:
1. 12
2. 11
3. 10
4. 09
5. 08
6. 07

and so on

Heat points will remain the same.
With this system cars should just simply be racing against their peers.


Last edited by Jim Leasure on Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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JRJ



Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me this is the best layed plan. We are in a STOCK class, so lets make it just that with a few suttle changes. We need get this class back to a stock class, not a run what you brung. I undestand people talking about safety wheels, and the possible need to have them, but racing tires NO we are a stock class and a stock style tire is what we should run. If you decide to open up the rules a little bit for sunday shows, then that may be ok, but NOT for friday shows.
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: REVAMP Reply with quote

well said Jim .. this is what ive been saying right along this is suppossta be a STOCK and fun and inexpensive class to run... not a cheat neat
hi performance class and I have seen this class grow into who has the most money or who can get away with the most.. I hope you inforce the rules as you right them for both the A/B classes and hopefully the rules can be untouched for a few years so everyone knows exactly what is what... and those who dont want to follow the rules and try the cheat neat method I think the DQ ,NO POINTS,and tow money is fair those who dont get the message the 1st time maybe suspend them for a couple weeks or until they understand the rules set forth.. another suggestion I have is a NO INVERTS for this class make em earn the win they have a fast car let them come from the back and get to the front..OVAL and FIGURE 8 none of this well get a faster car or give excuses they work on there cars more so they get rewarded.. thats not what this class should be about.. also speaking of the Figure 8 A/B run together is there going to be a win for each division and a Championship rewarded for both A/B ? also are we going to have points for the Figure 8 and are we going to run on Friday nights or just Sunday shows ? I personaly will run as many as you schedual... this is just my opinion on this matter Ken Dollarhite
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is confused about the earlier post that seemd to send two different messages it is because I had changed the post but inadvertently forgot delete all of the first.

After considering some different scenerios we had found a couple of problems with the formula.

11/21
Just for the heck of it I am going to repost basically what the original post said. Feel free to critique either formula:

All Pony division drivers will choose A or B.

"A" drivers qualify and the top 4 are exempt from break out. "B" drivers draw for starting positions and any driver under 17.00 for even one lap is immediately black flagged and sent off with out any points and will receive tow money only. Any driver choosing to scratch will start at the back of the "A".

The points system would stay the way it is right now.

18 cars or less the "A" and "B" run together and there are two winners. The "B" would line up behind the "A", also for restarts. More than 18 cars and we run two features. "A" would be a total invert.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any questions/comments regarding the A and B Confused ?
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