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Pure Stock Rule Question/Suggestion
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Rick that's a shame. however i do have to say on a couple things your wrong, Racing Springs are Legal at owosso. just same on each side. and the spartan rules won't mirror the rules of owosso even if the engine setback was changed. Owosso has no weight percentage rules, spartan does, 52 left 45 rear. so really i guess the engine setback isn't such a big deal in our HEAVY cars. i won't move my engine back because i am legal for owosso.

Enjoy racing this next season rick i'm sure you guys will do well where ever you choose to run. rick you've been racing since the "stone ages" you know how the game is played!
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 912

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure it's me but please tell me where my mistake is. The reason we discontinued allowing engine set back (2011) is so we would be closer to Owosso/Auto City rules and cars could go back and forth if they choose, or in the event you wanted to sell a car the market area was larger.

We thought it unfair to ask someone to make short notice changes of that size, thus the reason for giving those that currently have their engines set back would have more time to correct the issue and for those that are now building would build with the new rule in mind.

What am I missing?
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61SSracer



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Holt, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

This isn't a class i'm involved in, but the problem is that this is a class that's supposed to be STOCK Factory type cars ! It should be just that Stock ~ No engine set back from stock location, no engines that didn't come stock in the particular car that a racer is driving, no mixing and so forth of suspension parts, Ect !

There are 2 1/2 plus months before season starts for teams to Fix an engine set back problem or any other illegal parts on their car to race at Spartan or anywhere else as far as that goes ~ This would be the ideal time to make a rule clarification !

Chuck
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaggy covered it pretty well, stock location. that seems to be where everyone else is at. i'm all good with giving a long warning that it's gonna change. i'm also all good with saying stock location now. it's all your call. i just figured i'd ask.

Jim the rules are fine, and you've done well. i just saw that one thing on engine setback. just ignore my comment about weight percentages, those are good, i just wanted to state to rick that there's differences even with the setback being changed. the only rule that keeps a spartan rules car from traveling is the setback, i got DQ'd at owosso for it haha.

What ever choice you make about changing it for 2011 or now is fine by me and i'll run accordingly. However i do prefer stock location because of the ease of traveling.

I figured you'd knock me in the teeth today when you came into the shop for bringing this topic up haha.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 912

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're safe, I was just trying to ask John a question but I think someone on here could answer the question. I would have asked you but I thought John would prefer see you being productive and not talking racing while you're on the clock. Here goes:

Spartan has a .410 cam lift rule. I need the stock rocker numbers that go along with that rule. The rule needs to be a little more specific. John warned me about that last season but I forgot and didn't get the details added on line and need to do so for this season.

GM=is .15?
Ford=?
Dodge=?

Thanks
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i know what you mean Jim, but usually racing topics are alright for a few minutes. ok lets see,

GM - 1.5
Ford - 1.6
Mopar - 1.5

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/10/rockerarms/ - Ford Link says in there SBF's usually came with 1.6's some of the boss motors had 1.7's

i'm pretty sure stock on mopars are 1.5. Maurice would know that for sure though.
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oldgold



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: cam lift Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:
You're safe, I was just trying to ask John a question but I think someone on here could answer the question. I would have asked you but I thought John would prefer see you being productive and not talking racing while you're on the clock. Here goes:

Spartan has a .410 cam lift rule. I need the stock rocker numbers that go along with that rule. The rule needs to be a little more specific. John warned me about that last season but I forgot and didn't get the details added on line and need to do so for this season.

GM=is .15?
Ford=?
Dodge=?

Thanks
how were you checking it before? .410 at the valve or 270 roughly at the pushrod no 1.6 rockers or 1.7 no race cranks,rods,or pistons is what it should be.
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: cam lift Reply with quote

oldgold wrote:
how were you checking it before? .410 at the valve or 270 roughly at the pushrod no 1.6 rockers or 1.7 no race cranks,rods,or pistons is what it should be.


they checked it at the push rod then computed the with a 1.5 rocker and compared the rockers against a 1.6 rocker to check for them. a driver was DQ'd for 1.6's last year. it is already no race pistons, rods, and cranks.

Edited for Spelling, i'm having a bad spelling evening.
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oldgold



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flying14 wrote:
Well Rick that's a shame. however i do have to say on a couple things your wrong, Racing Springs are Legal at owosso. just same on each side. and the spartan rules won't mirror the rules of owosso even if the engine setback was changed. Owosso has no weight percentage rules, spartan does, 52 left 45 rear. so really i guess the engine setback isn't such a big deal in our HEAVY cars. i won't move my engine back because i am legal for owosso.

Enjoy racing this next season rick i'm sure you guys will do well where ever you choose to run. rick you've been racing since the "stone ages" you know how the game is played!
we were told racing springs were not allowed but stock pigtail springs were as being equal on both fronts and both rears meaning wire diameter and height.unless that has changed. weight you are right on. i dont know why tracks wont get on the same page instead of making non regulars change things to race their next door track.owosso cars will have to change weights to race at spartan . they will need to get the tech people up to speed as last year my car was there 2 times and never had the hood lifted.in order for it to be fair for all drivers rules must be enforced,so as to not have 1 car dominate the show.
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick at the sunday before the harvest Tech went around and checked a few things on EVERY pure stock in the pits. teching is coming around, that's why i really like the idea of Scott for tech, he's got a dirt track mentality that'll get cars in check, or you don't race. i personally like have the weight percentage rules at spartan compared to owosso. Keeps the weights equal.

Teching was better last year than in 08 and 07 combined. with the support at the pay window Jim gave us in the middle of the year from the middle to the end the pure stocks flourished. we had like 16 or 17 on fun night, 12 or something championship night. and 27 at the harvest!

Quote:
Front springs must be the same on both sides and equal. Rear springs must be the same on both sides and equal. No spring blocks, spacers, or cups allowed.


That's the Owosso Spring Rule.
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Jim,

On Engine Setback it's an easy fix. takes new radiator hoses, motor mounts, Driveshaft, and throttle linkage. that's all i had to change when i moved my drivetrain back forward for the nationals. of which this change can be done in a week easy, i changed mine in about 3 days in time for the nationals.
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J_Tucker



Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a quiestion

i just bought a new pure it used to be a dirt car and has screw jacks in the the front..

thats not legal right??

do i need to rebuild everything to make it legal??
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy,

Shoot me a call maybe i can help you whip that car into legal shape.
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Sortabigg



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Originally from Bath MI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: screw jacks... Reply with quote

Jimmy Im pretty sure if you welded the screwjacks inoperable and showed it to tech it would be fine. But a definite answer would probably be better. Or ask the cheater (kyle) LMAO!!! jk
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oldgold



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: rules Reply with quote

flying14 wrote:
Rick at the sunday before the harvest Tech went around and checked a few things on EVERY pure stock in the pits. teching is coming around, that's why i really like the idea of Scott for tech, he's got a dirt track mentality that'll get cars in check, or you don't race. i personally like have the weight percentage rules at spartan compared to owosso. Keeps the weights equal.

Teching was better last year than in 08 and 07 combined. with the support at the pay window Jim gave us in the middle of the year from the middle to the end the pure stocks flourished. we had like 16 or 17 on fun night, 12 or something championship night. and 27 at the harvest!

Quote:
Front springs must be the same on both sides and equal. Rear springs must be the same on both sides and equal. No spring blocks, spacers, or cups allowed.


That's the Owosso Spring Rule.
remember the line that says if it doesnt say you can in the rules then you cant .we were told last year under this same rule stock pigtail springs only and my son had to go buy those stock pigtail springs to be legal.,so someone needs to clarify thazt rule.
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