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2011 Pony Rules Question

 
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: 2011 Pony Rules Question Reply with quote

Jim - trying to understand this part of the rule book..

c) In the event a driver...
fails to qualify
breaks out in their heat
scratches their time
they will start the feature at the back of the "A" behind the fast qualifier and receive "B" points for their finishing position with the exception of cars that have already qualified for the A Feature.

Are you saying that a car which is normally an A car.. has a problem in qualifying and decides to scratch.. or perhaps they are late and miss qualifying.. car starts from the very back.. and still goes on to win (or where ever in the A they might finish) is still only going to get "B" points ?
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 909

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick, Here is the problem that we are having with the a/b procedures.

If a car that typically runs the b, or a car that can easily go back and forth from a or b scratches, doesn't q or breaks out of the heat, they run in the back of the a, which is where they need to be but they shouldn't get "a" points because IF they are a b car they get more points than they would have if they q and run in the b. You cannot assume every car will be an a or a b.

There may be a better way but it has to be simple, easy to score, work for two divisions (Spartan Stock and Pony) and follow in seconds on race night. Qualifying is very important when bracket racing. When cars don't q, or break out for whatever reason it skews the line up. I realize there are mechanical problems, there are also flats, cars hitting cars, drivers forgetting their transponder and so on. Some times there are bad nights but all competitors take the same chances. That is what the entire a/b bracket racing is based on. That is also how you avoid sand bagging.

We need cars to q to get them where they belong. Qualifying times are the foundation of bracket racing and when a car doesn't q they could benifit with last season's procedures. This season every driver racing for points should have their car ready to q.

We also have a late qualifying policy. The same policy is used for the Spartan Stock.

In the event a car is already in the a they will get a points. We may need to dress that language up some. Make any sense? This is sooooo easy Sad
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Jim B



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone that qualified for the A will race in the A, and get A points even if they scratch their time. Anyone that doesn't qualify, or qualified for the B and scratched their time, will race from the tail of the A and get B points.

Last edited by Jim B on Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only problem I see with this Jim is last season we had a couple of drivers that quailified for the A Main then figured it out they couldnt win in the A Main so they would sand bag just enough to get to the B Main and on the last lap take the lead so they could win.. this happened time after time same guys and nobody caught what they were doing.. this year I would like to see a BIG CHANGE in this kind of stratagey for those who want to do this is very simple .. strip them of there points and take there money for the night.. that stops the guys who think they are so slick to pull this .Its not fair to the rest of the B Main drivers this is my opinion on how to control this problem and put a STOP to them doing it.
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NEED mopar



Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Location: E.R

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats fair about racing. you work or u dont Laughing
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weasal30



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: points Reply with quote

the only problem i see is that if someone that qualifies into the A every week for 11-13 weeks has a problem during qualifying on week 14 and is then screwed becuase he may be able fix the car and run his normal times but be relegated to B points. That is the only problem i see, i think there should be a clause that if a person in the top 5 in A points has a bad qualifying night becuase of mechanical trouble they should be able to still run for A points if they scratch and run the A. This should be affective for both Pony and Spartan Stocks. Anyone not in the the top 5 will not qualify for this exemption.
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Scott Casaday
2nd place points SMS 2010
ROTY pony class SMS 2010
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 909

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

If a B driver breaks out on any ONE lap they will be black flagged and paid tow money. That should cover what happened last season. If for instance a driver waits until the last lap to move up they would still almost have to break out if they pass on that lap. If they don't break out they weren't speeding and deserve the spot. Am I missing something?
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Gusey Racing



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 190
Location: Charlotte MI

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a a car in this but.
I was reading this and have a suggestion.
Why not if a guy can't qualify for what ever reason or has car trouble during qualifying etc. He would be able to use a his qualifying time from the past week or the last time he was there as his time.
They done this at Galesburg in the Mid 90's and it seemed to work good.
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 909

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott,

We did struggle with that a little, so I can't disagree with you. I think we will insert some language to take care of that, in both divisions. However I also think we need something to be sure that it doesn't happen often for any one driver. Drivers can have some bad luck and shouldn't be penalized when they have consistently demonstrated hard work and commitment but there is a difference between bad luck or having trouble finding an intermittent problem and not bringing the car race ready.
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NEED mopar



Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Location: E.R

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

going over 1 lap is not right because if you get that one great lap u are going to be done with what if u are a rookie each time you go out u should be faster right.
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Jim B



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need MOPAR, that is why it is important to always give qualifying your best effort. You get eight laps to get your best time. Even veterans rarely go a quarter of a second faster than there qualifying time during race conditions unless they had an engine problem during qualifying.
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abcggarza



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can answer that as a to be true. I usually got faster every time i was on the track but that includes qualifying. My times went up for a while as i got better at driving the car and the track but then they kinda leveled out about halfway through the season. I think i only broke my qualifying time like 3 or 4 times all year and 1 was in someone elses car and another time i schratched and went to the back because i knew i was faster than that. I do like the new rule but my only concern is what if a regular B car has a bad qualifying, mechanical problem or whatever, or just had to work late and couldnt make it in time. Maybe they are a contender in the B every time but they lose points because they had to go to the A. Maybe there should be a running tally of who scratches or breaks out week after week and they are the one that should be penalized. As Jim stated, "Drivers can have some bad luck and shouldn't be penalized when they have consistently demonstrated hard work and commitment but there is a difference between bad luck or having trouble finding an intermittent problem and not bringing the car race ready." Just my opinion. See you all next year
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George Garza
Pony Stock #14
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Jim B



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Mason

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

George, when writing the rules, we weigh many factors. What is fair to the division as a whole, costs, time constraints, etc. If we wrote rules for every "what if" scenario the rule book would be the size of a small catalogue. Luckily this rule only affects drivers that register for the points chase and could be adjusted for next season if we see consistent problems arise. Most drivers run in either the "A" or "B" consistently but there will sometimes be abnormalities. Your observation is duly noted though and will be monitored. Thanks for your input.

Jim B
Timing and Scoring
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lansingsportsrage.com



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim B wrote:
Anyone that qualified for the A will race in the A, and get A points even if they scratch their time. Anyone that doesn't qualify, or qualified for the B and scratched their time, will race from the tail of the A and get B points.


Thank you Jim.

I still think this could screw a guy who is late whom has a problem in qualifying, but at least it clears up how its going to be run.

Thanks.
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weasal30



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:
Scott,

We did struggle with that a little, so I can't disagree with you. I think we will insert some language to take care of that, in both divisions. However I also think we need something to be sure that it doesn't happen often for any one driver. Drivers can have some bad luck and shouldn't be penalized when they have consistently demonstrated hard work and commitment but there is a difference between bad luck or having trouble finding an intermittent problem and not bringing the car race ready.


I agree, there are those who leave there cars on the trailer all week and do not work to improve there ride and then there are those of use that spend every non working or sleeping hour trying to improve. i see the dilemma with this rule you have, i believe maybe a limit on how many times you could take advantage of a "problem" should be instated, 2-3 times for 1 year seems fair. But i also understand that requires a log to be kept witch does get away from making the rules and classes easier to tech. So it seems to be a no win situation. I do not envy your position. lol.
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Scott Casaday
2nd place points SMS 2010
ROTY pony class SMS 2010
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