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Why make or keep them stock?
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LALA



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: rules Reply with quote

maurice, before i start removing the ten feet of weld holding this plate on my rear axle, are there any other items on my car i should inspect and or replace? thankx jerry.
p.s. any body have an extra rear axle for a 93 shadow? my shoulder's getting sore from grinding. lol
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jerry,

Quote:

before i start removing the ten feet of weld holding this plate on my rear axle, are there any other items on my car i should inspect and or replace?


I won't know until I give the car a very good looking over. I don't think Jacob was inclined to cheat, so you probably won't have much of a problem.

I told him last year to go ahead and stiffen up the rear axle because everyone else was doing it and it's always been ignored by the tech officials, except for a short time in 2003.

But now we're going to require the rear axle to be stock.

On the Shadows, there is a "track bar", sometimes it's referred to as a panhard bar. It runs from a bracket on the left side of the frame over to the right side of the axle. If you get hit in the right rear wheel or if the right side of the car slaps the wall, this bar usually bends. Always inspect it after an impact. If it gets bent, you can either replace it or straighten it. Keep in mind, that once it has been bent one time, it will be weaker and will bend easier. So it's OK to reinforce the track bar, but don't overdo it. If you make it too strong, you might bend something else like the frame mount if you have another impact.

As for anything else on the car, you'll have to consult Jacob on what he has done in case there is something that isn't quite right. We're going to be studying the cars very close this year. I didn't pay much attention to Jacob's car other than stuff like the exhaust size and safety items. I caught him with an illegal tire one night, but that was easy to fix.

-Maurice
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Ed



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Jonesville Mi

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have a rear axle to a dodge shadow call me 517-673-4936 Fast Eddie's speedshop
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LALA, Don’t change your rear axle!!! Maurice is not the tech inspector (his own words) He continues to change the rules with his access to the web site. You need to contact the speedway office and speak with the REAL tech inspector Chuck Ewing.

Maurice This is the problem YOU are creating. You should apologize to this man for all the extra work you have caused him. If you wanted to change the rules you should have attended the rules meeting!!! The car was sold race ready and you have caused much grief to many people. Quit acting like a mad child with a key board.
If you continue deleting my post this will only change to a different forum.
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LALA



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: rules Reply with quote

I'll tell ya guys, No matter where the problem starts, it always ends up at my rear end, this time it's starting there. I'm wondering if i could set up an appointment to have my car inspected by a "SPARTAN SPEEDWAY OFFICIAL" that can tell me of any changes that i need to make for my car to pass inspection, before i change everything. thank you LALA.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,

Why do you have to continously try to be a trouble maker with the Pony Stock class.

Here we are trying to get this class under control, make it affordable for the majority of the competitors, be helpful to newcomers interested in getting into this class, and all you do is constantly whine about this or that.

The rules of this class are finally being enforced and you don't like it. Get over it. Make your cars legal and stop whining about it.

Here's the official wording from Jim Leasure on this subject:

"I will stand by our choices here because we spent a lot of time in consideration. They are now what they are going to be. I am certain we did what is right overall if you consider the long term health of the division."

And as for me being a tech official or not being a tech official, the former is true. I will be working as a tech official at Spartan this year. Although, I'm not sure what that has to do with following the rules. The rules are there whether I'm a tech official or not.

Mark, what will it take to make you understand that you can't cheat with your chassis and suspensions any longer? Maybe I shouldn't say "cheat". Let's call it stretching the rules, being ingenious, crafty, smart, or whatever you want to call it. But whatever it is, the point is there are rules and you'll finally have to build your cars according to the rules.

Now, let's all get to work and have some fun this year.

-Maurice
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trouble maker? Cheater? Let’s review
Who drove to Pennsylvania to pick a race 2.6l K car……YOU
Who built a 2.6l to 154hp……..YOU
Who cut control arms and lengthen them……….YOU
Who built a 2.5l with a Turbo intake that never came stock on a car in the U.S...YOU
Who built the car that won 13 races at Spartan …….YOU
Who profited from work on race cars while supposedly teching them…. YOU


Marice, Besides the obvious conflict of interest you continue to act as if you were not the person that caused this class to become complicated and “not stock”. Now you apparently have a vendetta against the Torg racing team. What ever the problem with me you should direct if at me. By continuing to change the rules you are causing the car count to search for other places to race. Nobody wants a zealot for tech inspector. You had a chance to change the rules and YOU didn’t even show up for the meeting As for cheating parts on my car you and ever tech inspector at Spartan spent HOURS looking over my car. So which is it, was my car legal or are you inept?
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I'm not sure where this huge problem started, but as I've stated before, no rules have been changed. They are simply being enforced.

3 years ago, Paul Zimmerman came to me and said he was going to have to do something about this class as it was getting too carried away. Well, it's taken this long and we are finally granting his wishes.

As for anything I've ever done to a race car, it's all out in the open. Everybody knows what I've done to them. I admit it. I bent the rules too, it was the only way to compete with you guys. When the Torg cars are flying through the corners faster than everyone else, everyone else must figure out what it takes to also get through the corners just as fast. It involves stuff that isn't really legal.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but it's time to start leaning more towards keeping these cars stock. The K-Car I built for Kenny which is now owned by Brian Beckner only needs the rear axle fixed and the RH control arm replaced to make the chassis legal. The engine has always been legal in that car. The 2.6 is a very powerful engine right out of the box once the emissions junk is removed. A good ring seal and valve job and it flies.

torg38 wrote:

Who drove to Pennsylvania to pick a race 2.6l K car……YOU

Not sure what was wrong with that.

Quote:

Who built a 2.6l to 154hp……..YOU

I questioned what the chassis dyno said, but it's true, that's what it came out to.

Quote:

Who cut control arms and lengthen them……….YOU

It was obvious, everybody knew we did it. We didn't hide the fact. It wasn't really legal, but nothing was ever done about it.

Quote:

Who built a 2.5l with a Turbo intake that never came stock on a car in the U.S...YOU

And you with the green Shadow, John Ward, Jacob Newman, Brian Passick, Ashley Passick, and Robert Fletcher, along with a couple of others over the past few years. It's legal, so what?

Quote:

Who built the car that won 13 races at Spartan …….YOU

It's won more features than that. I'll give the two drivers who have been in that car much of the credit for winning as much as it has.

Quote:

Who profited from work on race cars while supposedly teching them…. YOU

Not like you think I have. I don't think I took in $2000 for working on race cars last year. Most of what I do in my shop is normal auto repairs on cars that go back and forth to work.

Quote:

Now you apparently have a vendetta against the Torg racing team.

I have no problem with you or your brother or anyone else on your team. I think I've always treated you guys very fair at the track. Sorry you feel this way.

Quote:

What ever the problem with me you should direct if at me.

You mean instead of replying to stuff that you are saying on here and constantly accusing me of doing? I really don't have a problem with you, I just want you to follow the rules as they are written, just like everyone else.

Quote:

By continuing to change the rules you are causing the car count to search for other places to race.

There you go again. The rules aren't changed, just defined and enforced. Nothing wrong with enforcing the rules.

Quote:

Nobody wants a zealot for tech inspector.

What's that mean? Is it good?

Quote:

You had a chance to change the rules and YOU didn’t even show up for the meeting

Sorry if it was such a big problem that I wasn't at the meeting. There were two reasons for me not being at the meeting. First, at the time, I didn't think I was going to be working at the track this year. Secondly, my step-daughter was in an accident, totalled out her car and I had to go to Royal Oak where she lives, to trailer a car to her so that she would have a set of wheels. That was more important to me than listening to the whining about the tires.

Quote:

As for cheating parts on my car you and ever tech inspector at Spartan spent HOURS looking over my car.

Hours? We spent more time looking for a two-way radio that everyone else kept claiming you had in your car.

Quote:

So which is it, was my car legal or are you inept?

Your car wasn't legal and we let it slide. Maybe we should have been tougher and not let it get to this point. Inept? What's that mean?

And the soap opera continues...

This must be making for some pretty good reading for many people.

-Maurice
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goinincircles22



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 191
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im actually getting bored with it. Its not entertaining at all. We all know what the rules are, love them or hate them they are the rules. All cars will be built according to the rules and every car will be inspected by me the same. No special favors for anyone, I dont care who you are, friend or foe, everyone treated equally. You all have my word on that.

John Ward
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Sortabigg



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Originally from Bath MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: my reply Reply with quote

And still no manuals....Geeeez
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LALA



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry if i opened up a can of worms guy's. I'll just take the plate off, i've got a couple of monthes to play with things and figure it out. I did like all the offers for help and i plan on following up on them, thanks again LALA.
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Why make or keep them stock? Reply with quote

In all fairness to our newcomer, Jerry LaFontaine (username: LALA), I've separated a string of messages from his topic to this new one since these had nothing to do with the original topic.

This particular string of messages appears to be a discussion about not wanting to keep the Pony Stocks in a stock configuration, but rather to allow various modifications to the chassis and suspension that are proven to aid in handling, yet may or may not be known to a newcomer to this division. Do these changes damage the true spirit of the class? Shouldn't this class be kept as an entry level class with an easy to build car?

Anyway, anyone who wishes to speak out on the subject, may do so in this message thread.
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Sortabigg



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Originally from Bath MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Sure thing Admin, you should have the rule.... If it came with a stick it's legal, wouldn't that be the most STOCK rule. Run what it has?
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

you should have the rule.... If it came with a stick it's legal, wouldn't that be the most STOCK rule. Run what it has?

Good point, however, if it came with a DOHC engine, isn't that also stock?

Can you picture a DOHC engine with a stickshift possibly dominating this class?

To be honest, I personally would like to allow stick shift cars if some sort of control could be implemented.

For instance, I don't like the idea of adding weight to allow a stick shift. Some of the fast cars are already 150-200 pounds overweight. These cars would be faster while already having the added weight requirement.

A tire restriction and/or exhaust restriction could be used, though. How about if a stick is used, Sumitomo tires cannot be used on the front and the last 6 inches of the exhaust must be 1/4 inch smaller? Or maybe just the tire restriction? Something like this would allow someone with an existing stick-shift car to come and race with us on a trial basis to see if they like the track. They wouldn't be fast, but at least they could try out the facility.

-Maurice
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Dennis ONeil



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 423
Location: Eaton Rapids

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Hello,
I feel the need to comment on the nature of the posts in this thread.
First of all, yes the rules should be evenly enforced throughout the class.
Things that have been allowed in the past should be looked at carefully. Most improvements are the product of ingenuity, not the result of spending big bucks. In the spirit of keeping the class affordable, racing parts should not be allowed. In the spirit of this being a learning experience, ingenious yet reasonable low cost ways of improving the handling and running characteristics using stock parts should be allowed. Since Mark has never been officially sited for cheating, I think it is unfair to acuse him of such on this thread. No one is cheating until they get caught. The ponies are, after all, RACECARS not stock highway legal cars.
Cool Of course this is all just my honest opinion. Laughing
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