[Bardenracing42]

@ Ken....I re-read my post three or four times and can't find where I called anyone a sissy. Since you are out there every week, my comments about those who won't race because they know they are going to get beat doesn't apply to you.

I am not going to get all wrapped up in this conversation. I am going to try to get a motor back together and come race. Those that want to not participate because they can't be the winner have the perogative to do so. Those of you like Ken, and Jen who are out there every week even if you aren't the top dog have my utmost respect. You are the ones who are the key to making the class work.

[racingguy10]

This is for mopar how would giving 3 warm up laps and 2 qualifying laps take too long? You used to get 8 laps to do everything at spartan and now its only 2. It would take less time than 8 laps and yes it would take a little longer than just going 2 laps but it would give and show results. As for sand bagging Rob newman does it every weekend. Rob belongs in the A class. When he ran in the A class the one weekend everything was fine for all the classes. Just something to think about.

[61SSracer]

WOW~I Can't believe that i'm missing out on such a GREAT B1t(h Fest here!

I WON"T Quote Anyone in particular but Several things come to mind!

I'm an A Main car and agree with MOST of what's being said here! I Too Work My Ass Off on my car all week to be Faster, and Yes i Do have some Sponsors to help with money a LITTLE~I've received about $400 TOTAL from others and the Rest is from MY POCKET!

The Key is that After expenses from racing on friday night i put ALL the extra money Back into the car! I profit about $75 a night and put it anywhere i can that needs improvements! You'll NEVER get your money back from the car(itself) investment but can Add to it little by little as you go! If you knew what i've got into my car you'd be Surprised at how Cheap it can be!
Someone said in a post that alot of the cars are 3200-3400 lbs~Start Cutting out extra weight - All it cost is TIME and a few bucks for wheels/blades! The "Pure Stock" type cars can weigh Alot Less than my car according to the rules.
Spring cups are a Cheap investment that Help Alot, as well as aftermarket upper a-arms~Cut off the stock mounts Buy a used set of uppers and remake your mounts! Take your 4-link upper arms off and for about $40 make it into a 3-link!

There are a MILLION Good/Great used parts out there from engine to chassis that are CHEAP and Will Help you go faster! LOOK AROUND for them! Do your Homework and Apply what you learn~I've spent HUNDREDS of Hours on line READING and Learning things to go Faster and Alot of it is SET UP!! Let me say that AGAIN-SET UP!!!! Scale your car and get the weights where it NEEDS to be! Check your Stagger At the track and between races and Adjust it! Practice~Make Alot of different changes and TRY them~If i works COOL~If Not go back the other way!

As far as the Sandbagging Crap goes~if you feel the need to do so Have At it! I've been called a Sandbagger by friends and foe for years~Guess what NEVER! I SUCK at 2-lap qualifying and i WORK on my car Every night between qualifying-heat and feature races! I start up front most nights and usually run a LITTLE Faster in the heat and feature than my Q-time---->Why? Because i Work on the car to get faster that night!
This Crap of You Shouldn't be able to run faster than yr qualifying time in the race or get black flagged---->What are you STUPID! The breakout rule is to LIMIT how much faster you can run! MOST of us run All out to qualify and if i can get a little more out of the car in the heat or feature THAT'S THE NAME OF THE GAME!

Whoever said~None of you A-main guys(or whatever) Will HELP us out or give advice--->Guess you just DIDN'T ask the right guys! MOST of us would Bend over backwards to help out ANY Other driver! Hell i even Helped Damon Place out the night he crashed in the Heat race to get back into the feature and i'm TRYING to beat him in the points championship! I HAVE and WILL HELP ANYONE THAT NEEDS IT ANY WAY I CAN! All you've got to do is ASK!

If you don't know where to get good used parts and/or can't find them ASK any of the A-main Guys~chances are we have or can get them for you! You can't afford tires(Who can-LOL!) ask the A-main, Mod, or Super guys for Good used tires! Most All of us GIVE them away or charge Very Little for take offs!

As said before~This is a Sport Driven by Money, but that Doesn't mean you have to have/spend a ton to be in it! I gauge a race night on several things #1~Did i have FUN! #2~Did i do it and bring the car home in ONE Piece! #3~Did i Improve on the week before! If you answer YES to #1 & #3 than it's been a GREAT night~if not than WORK on it for next week! If you answer NO on #2 than Oh Well~SHT Happens! Work on it and come back next week! If you want to Cry about not Winning and/or think you don't have a chance to win----->WORK on things to get Faster! ALL cars out there have the POTENTIAL of being in the 14's you just have to work at it!

***DISCLAIMER***

Before ANYONE tries to Rip me a New A-Hole on this--->We've had a Full frame chassis car down to 2700 lbs and still SAFE, Built a Great Geometry Front end with STOCK Parts, 3-link for CHEAP, and Won races with 1/2 the money of the Big Spenders! If you want to know How~Read and Learn ALL of it online and if your Too LAZY--->Just Ask for help!

If you say you Can't Afford Any of this than your NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH and/or READING COST TOO MUCH!


Chuck Ammerman
#61 ABC Class

[Mopar93]

[Mopar93]

[Mopar93]

[Mopar93]

[61SSracer]

The MORE cars in the ABC the better chance of a more even split in the times to get Better racing across the board! If people have a car Sitting they should BRING it out and RACE Not Btch about things being Unfair!

When i first started 8 yrs ago my ONLY goal was to finish ON The Lead Lap! It took half a season to do it and Wow it was Hard Work! That was in the Street Stock Class at Spartan! If i had the attitude of some people i should've just QUIT! My first couple times out i was lapped 4-5 times a race and kept Trying and Trying to get better at driving And SET UP!

Seams like Every class involving Street stocks, Pures, Ponies and cars of this Nature Has a Bunch of guys Btching about Sht not being Fair? I just Don't get it? Maybe i'm just from the Age group that was the Last of the Kids that actually had to Work for the Trophy and not the group that Everyone got it for Being on the team!

Maurice~THANKS for the kind Words!
I've said it a Million times~I'll do Whatever i can to help anyone else and if you beat me with the help/information i give ya--->Well then i guess i'll have to Work Harder for Next week!

To the budget Guys~Ask for advice if yr at the end of yr knowledge rope! Ask Me, Damon Place, Mike Ammerman, Dane Long, Dan Logan, Justin Kazmar, Chris Hettinger, Bob Flotka, Matt Kirtchen, Chris Place, Chris Ozanich and several others for advice on where to go from here! ALL names mentioned as well as many others i've Seen and Had them Help when needed! You need help with drive train ask Scott Casaday from Riverside Gear in Eaton Rapids, Engines~Talk to Phil or Dave at Engine Machine Service in Potterville, the list goes on! These guys are All very helpful and Racers themselves!

Chuck Ammerman

[Mopar93]

Something else for everyone here to keep in mind....

When you have an actual class like the Pure Stocks, someone will always whine about the fast guys winning all the time. In normal class racing, there will always be the fast guys, the guys who either know what they are doing, know how to drive, or have more money than anyone else, or all of the above.

However, with the ABC style of racing, once there are enough cars, it makes absolutely no difference how much money you have, or how good you are with setting up a car or how good you are at driving. With enough cars, you will race with other cars running very similar times.

It takes more than the promoter to get the car count up. There is a big network of communication between the drivers, you guys need to help get more cars to show up so that you have a better chance at being competitive and having fun. The more cars there are, the closer the racing will be in each feature and the more fun you will have.

The success of this style of racing is all up to you guys.

-Maurice

[dplace24]

Dane Long is a tough competitor his racing over the years has taught me many lessons some good some bad, But he is one of many drivers who have made me the driver I am today. Dane is still as fast as Josh Mike and Myself and as far as I know Mike and josh have been handing me my Ass all year. Most of the A cars have spent plenty of money to go fast. This class is designed for three levels of cars and we only have two levels right now, Your mad because Mark and Rob are fast in the B feature Marc and Rob feel the same about the A feature. I can tell you we tried to mix them at Springport one night with a 4 second split 18 cars from the front to back, Just imagine how many we would tare up at Spartan with A and B mixed so try to look at it from other drivers perspectives bottom line is we can cry about it or race. we all have the same rules so if they are legal for the B division then they can race. By the rules I can slow my car down if I choose to and run the B feature never happen but just think about it. I am not trying to make anyone mad but taking it out on Dane is not the ansewer.

[dplace24]

Thanks Shaggy, and great post. Chuck is right i will help any driver i have done this in the past and also this year we are all a racing community here our track is a friendly track we need to keep it that way. I have worked my way up for seven years now and had alot of help from all of the people Chuck mentioned If certain drivers are struggling don't be afraid to ask a Veteran driver to jump in and hot lap your car you may be blown away about what you can learn from it. I have helped Scott and Sabrina booth this year and she has gotten faster each week and she won a race last week seeing the excitement on her face was a good a feature win for me. So ask me if you want if i don't have the answer i can get it for you. As far as everyone crying about money cars like chuck said the car is the big expense I have been unemployed for over a year my racing money comes from racing you see a'lot of sponsors on my car i made a portfollio and went to the company's on my car and simply asked some say no some say yes. On a weekly basis i race with what i made at the track the week before i have been very lucky when i get wrecked my friends and (competitors) help me get it back together my brother is a pretty awesome crew guy too! I am leading points at two tracks right now and if i have a bad night at spartan or springport then i will be done so for all of you that think of me as a money car please send me some LOL! if you have questions call or e-mail 517-819-7657 or Dplace24@frontier.com

[jason]

Damon your car is a money car compared to the cars we are talking about.The A cars have more money in the motors than the entire cars we are talking about.The 13 car runs consistent 15.2 second laps and has about 2500 dollars total into it.Everthing is completely stock other than springs,shock, heads ,intake and cam.I don't think we have a problem.The split just allowed 2 cars that are superior over the other cars in the class.We are not crying,we just want things to be fair.We all feel the way Marc and Rob did when they run in your class.They had an option to drop down a class we didn't until now with a c class.I have been told we need to work on them.I have been told we can shave a full second off our times with very little work which means the 13 car could run a 14.2 second lap.If this were true most of you wouldn't bought tube chassis.When your tube chassis barely runs 14.2 second laps your not going to get a stock chassis car to run those times with very little money or work. I would also like to say I have been told by many drivers to let them hot lap the car and they will show us what it will do.I talked to the car owner and we both agree to take that bet.If you want to hot lap it get ahold of me.I have been told a veteran driver will put it in the 14's.I am a firm believer that circle track racing has very little to do with the driver.I believe it has to do with set-up and money.I would argue less than 10% has to do with driver.When Todd Foote comes up and beats you guys is it he's a far superior driver or does he have more money and better set-up.I know what the answer is,because i've heard the bitching.I don't believe theirs any driver at spartan that can consistently put this car in the 14's.The car turns those times with a driver who has never race anything before.He told me this car is the fastest thing he has ever drove,so if you think your veteran skills will allow you to drive it faster th an come prove it.
Damon, I admire your passion for racing.What i'm about to say is not a stab at you,so don't take this the wrong way.When your racing comes before your priorities in life your into deep.I've watched guys rack credit cards up.I've watched them lose there house over it.Racing while unemployed isn't a good thing either.I think we are sending the wrong message to new drivers.We as drivers should encourage new drivers to race in classes that are more affordable.Your cars are exspensive,so please don't come over and blow smoke up my ass and tell me there not!

[letsgoracing]

Jim you mentioned a couple weeks ago that the A cars would received a pay increase and the B car would be adjusted shortly. I see that you have increased the C cars, but still no increase for the B car. Can you please advise if the B cars will receive a pay increase and why the C cars already receive one without running a feature yet? Thanks

[Jim Leasure]

We now know we need to run a C in order to have like times in all divisions. We think the C division would have had to take too much of a cut in purse (from B to C) the way we structured the purse at the beginning of the ABC race format.

That said the B will at least for the immediate future have 3 or 4 cars in it which are paid at the top of the pay scale. Running a feature with full feature pay and a fraction of the cars is a pretty good guarantee. Depending on car counts maybe the B cars would prefer to (or need to next season) run the A, that of course gives them potential for higher pay. We really need to watch and evaluate for a while now.

[lansingsportsrage.com]

The last two weeks, we (SMS) have run A-B-C splits.. and I think the racing has been better and we seem to be seeing increased car count already because guys with mid-B cars know they won't end up in the A and guys with C cars know they'll have a chance to compete in a C. We hope the trend continues.