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TIRES
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice you do understand that willam has prolly the fastest car at spartan and hes in a caviler. idk i really would like to see the class all on the same tire so everyone is on a even playing feild. but that sounds like thats not going to happen.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other option which really isn't an option, so to speak, is to just leave the rule alone. 70 series tires are still readily available, so keep the rule as is. That is probably the safest way to go.

As to the Hartman car, I don't know anything about it or why it is as fast as it is. The results on the site don't show what kind of car is being used so I had no clue if it was a Neon or anything else. But if it is a Cavalier with DOHC, then the rule I previously suggested could be "All Neons with SOHC or DOHC plus any other model car with DOHC engine must run 70 Series tires. All other cars can run either 70 Series or 65 Series."

If a 65 series tire is being considered at all, this might be a safe way to break it in to the class. But if the Hartman car is not a DOHC engine, then that won't work.

The 65 series should not be allowed across the board because all the current fast cars will have to switch to them. Anyone not switching will feel as though they can't compete and the class will dwindle. In reality, the cars are getting too fast again. They need to be slowed down, not sped up.

One thing that needs to be done, believe it or not, is to check for soaked tires in the Pony Stock class.

-Maurice
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i think there need to be a change if we go to a 65 series tire i would be happy. im not worried about the fast guys i worried about the best interest of the entire class 65 series tire would jumble up everything and get the fast guy off the horded tire they been on for the last few years. even the playing feild out for a few weeks until a good tire is found
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is where I am struggling.

It appears that there is plentiful supply of 70 series tires. I have talked to drivers that race each week, or at least almost every week and they don't even use up 4 tires per year unless they cut one.

We need a compelling reason to make a change because a change affects so many and that is why I ask the drivers what their opinions are.

There is usually a quiet minority that trust us to make the right choices so we also need to represent their opinions as well. If they are not asking for change they are likely good with status quo.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Leasure wrote:

It appears that there is plentiful supply of 70 series tires. I have talked to drivers that race each week, or at least almost every week and they don't even use up 4 tires per year unless they cut one.


That paragraph is a good enough reason to leave the tire rule alone and keep running the 70 series tires.

But as Marq stated, there apparently are a few drivers who have tires that nobody else can get. Not sure if that is true or not, but if it is, a "spec" tire rule fixes that problem. But making a spec tire rule and forcing everyone to buy new tires will just cause more problems. Newcomers can't just come and race without buying 4 tires.

However, a spec tire rule for just the RF corner might be feasible. Make everyone run the same tire on the RF and any other model on the other 3 corners. The RF tire does the most work and with everyone running the same tire at that corner, it would tend to even out any tire advantage anyone could possibly have unless they are soaking that RF tire. And making everyone buy just one particular tire wouldn't be much of a hardship.

Just pick out a cheap, hard, long-lasting tire for the RF. Make it available in 185/70-14 and 195/70-14. If a 13 inch version is needed, have a couple of those on hand as well.

A tire sponsor could supply 40 tires to the track for about $2000.

One way to get everyone on a spec RF tire is to allow them to run their very first week with whatever they bring. That means opening night will be run with no spec tire on any car. Then everyone who qualifies for the A main will get a tire at the end of the night as part of their payoff. They must run the spec tire for the remainder of the season. If they fall into the B, it doesn't matter, they must still run the spec tire. Anytime a B car gets in the A, he starts running a spec tire the following week for the remainder of the season.

Comments, anyone?

-Maurice
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case, the RF spec tire rule gets any interest...

Cars running in the B class or lower do not have to run a spec tire on the RF unless they have previously qualified for the A feature on any given night.

Anyone showing up for the first time and qualifying for the A feature must start at the rear unless they buy a spec tire and install it on the RF.

The spec tire rule applies to the driver. If he brings a new car, it must have a spec tire on it. If he hops into someone's B class car, he must put a spec tire on the RF.

A new driver hopping into an A class car that was previously run by a spec tire driver should also be required to run a spec tire on the RF, but this would have to be left to the discretion of the officials.

I think this rule could work if a suitable tire supply was found. It wouldn't require a lot of tires since it only applies to the RF and also since the tires will last several nights.

-Maurice
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look through the list of topics here in the Pony Stock section, you'll discover that tires get talked about every year during the off season.

The Pony Stock tire rule really hasn't changed at all since the class was first started about 12 or so years ago. The only real change was the limit of a 185 width for the Neons for a few years. Other than that, it has always been 195/70 as the max width and minimum profile.

The tire rule has worked very well all this time.

Spec tires have been discussed in the past, but if I remember right, it was usually the faster teams that didn't want it. Hardly anyone ever mentioned that they did want it, they just kept quiet. Those who did speak up were against it, maybe because they didn't want to limit the grip on their RF corner.

Maybe it is time to look at a spec rule, maybe not. Should it be left alone for another year? Personally, I think my idea of a spec tire on the RF would work. If the RF does't grip real well, it means that the tires on the other corners don't have to be anything special. It's a cost reduction all the way around.

Fast qualifying times would get back to the high 16's again.

-Maurice
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont like the spec tire rule for the RF

yes there are some guys that found tires that match the rule perfectally to the rules package. its a milestar tire that is discountuied. there where sold a sears. well a couple guy got wind of it a bought up all the tires. some guys still have some sumo's.

now one way to solve this problem would be to raise the min tread wear rating to like a 400 then them tires would be illegal and everyone would have to go to a different tire. i still think going to a 65 series tire will do more good then harm. i stock neon came with 185/65R14 from factory. it would give newbees a chance to race without having to get new tires.

i say either raise the tread wear rating or go to a 65 series tire. or both
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to determine how good a tire is based on its tread wear rating. I've seen tires with almost 500 rating do very well and others with 300 not do well at all.

Putting everyone on the same RF tire would make everyone equal at that corner. Whoever has those good tires can still use them on the other corners, but it won't give them hardly any advantage, but they'll still be able to use them up.

Keep in mind that I don't have any say-so on this, I'm just making suggestions.

The ultimate voices are all of you Pony Stock drivers. I'm trying to encourage you guys to speak up and make your own suggestions. Jim Leasure is listening.

-Maurice
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dhart



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know I have heard all year that these tires are no longer available. Guys go do your homework before you speak. I bought 10 milestars in August and they had 10 more available at that time. I bought enough to outfit 2 cars for next year to start with fresh tires, not hoarding.

As stated before we changed tires 3 times in a year and a half and always find good tires that meet the rules.

I am sorry that we are fast, but we worked EVERY night on Williams car to make it fast and did our homework instead of asking for rule changes to slow everybody else down to our speed.

Maurice makes good points and knows what he is talking about. He has probably forgotten more about racing than we know. I don't want to see a spec tire rule, but only because we have already purchased our tires for next year.

Didn't the track used to add weight to cars that were consistently winning or faster than everyone else? This seems to be more reasonable and doesn't cost people money to meet new rules.

Jim, do you want to slow down the class or is this about the availability of tires. This discussion started as a "can't find tires" talk and turned to "how do we slow the fast cars down" rant. I saw some good racing in 2013 under the rules that were in place, and there didn't seem to be any problems until our Cavalier set a new track record. I'm not trying to sound bad but any change in rules costs money so think hard about this please.

Rant over.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Didn't the track used to add weight to cars that were consistently winning or faster than everyone else?


As far as I know, it has only happened one time so far. About 250 pounds was added to a little Dodge back in 2004.

-Maurice
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ken#8



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: tires Reply with quote

I feel the rules read (stock) and the tires that are put on the cars from the factory should be allowed to run that makes it stock 185/65/14 is on almost all the 4 cyl cars from the factory if you are going to say stock then I feel this is the size of tire that should be used ...I myself tried several different places in the middle of the season to find the 70 series tire and they were just not available ... while I could have got 65 series all day long ... if this means we have to change our set up to get the most out of the 65 so be it . I DO NOT want Hoosier tires on the 4 cly class ...I say we all run the 185/65/14 ...
this is just my opinion
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: tires Reply with quote

ken#8 wrote:
I feel the rules read (stock) and the tires that are put on the cars from the factory should be allowed to run that makes it stock 185/65/14 is on almost all the 4 cyl cars from the factory if you are going to say stock then I feel this is the size of tire that should be used ...I myself tried several different places in the middle of the season to find the 70 series tire and they were just not available ... while I could have got 65 series all day long ... if this means we have to change our set up to get the most out of the 65 so be it . I DO NOT want Hoosier tires on the 4 cly class ...I say we all run the 185/65/14 ...
this is just my opinion


Hi Ken,

Where did you look locally? I just checked two local sources, Belle Tire and Discount Tire. Belle Tire shows 9 different tires in the 195/70-14 size. Discount tire shows 8 different ones. Both show their cheapest at $41 per tire.

Then I checked Walmart. They show 10 different tires in this size.

Every tire dealer in town either stocks these tires or can get them. There is no shortage of 195/70-14 tires.

-Maurice
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, Sears also shows a pretty good selection of tires. For the 195/70-14 they show 23 different tires and for the 185/70-14 they show 26 different ones.

Like I said, the 70 series tires are very much readily available.

But if there is a very good tire that is no longer available, yet is in use by one or more teams, a chosen few will have a distinct advantage. That is what the spec tire on the RF will eliminate, any advantage anyone could possibly have. The key is to pick out the most suitable tire for the spec tire. It should be cheap, easy to obtain, long-lasting, and not necessarily very grippy.

-Maurice
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont see what it would hurt to allow a 65 series tire. the rule would still allow 70 series tire it would just allow the racers more tires to choose from. the guy that r lucky enough to have the good 70 series tires can still use them and allow the other guy to try and find a better tire. i dont think a 65 series tire is going to over take the fast guy still on 70 series tires. i would just give us midpack guy more options to try and catch up to the fast guys. i mean come on how much faster can a 65 series tire be from a 70 series. ytou guy are putting to much thought into this.
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