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TIRES
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abcggarza



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed!!! Too much thought into this, I dont see a significant problem allowing the 65 series tire.
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Pony Stock #14
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marq Eaton #12 wrote:
i would just give us midpack guy more options to try and catch up to the fast guys.


That sounds like a good idea, but, If you find a good 65 series tire, the fast guys will have also found it and you will still be a midpack guy.

Quote:
i mean come on how much faster can a 65 series tire be from a 70 series.


How much slower can a 75 series tire be than a 70 series? Hmmm.... nobody wants to use a 75 series tire. I wonder why?

When you use a lower profile tire, you will have less sidewall flex and more tread contact on the surface. More grip.

Quote:
ytou guy are putting to much thought into this.


In order to make a good decision with anything, you have to give it a lot of thought. I'm sure Jim will make a good decision. He just might choose to allow 65 series tires, but only after he has given it much thought. He also might not change anything and stay with the current rule. More input is needed, there has only been a few drivers chiming in.

I want you guys to know that I have nothing to do with any decision on this. I just enjoy helping out with ideas and suggestions and pointing out pros and cons. I'm no longer a tech official or promoter and not affiliated with any race track anywhere.

-Maurice
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a 65 series tire is allowed, everyone will have to buy new tires. Nobody is going to stick with their 70 series tires as they will be inferior. If a midpack B car stays with 70 series tires and everyone else in the B goes to the 65 series, that car will move from the middle of the pack to the back. So, he will have to buy all new tires to get back to the middle and to continue hoping to move to the front.

Allowing a 65 series tire is a big jump. Some will benefit from it more than others. RPM's will change, grip will change, qualifying times will get faster.

Everybody will buy new tires. Many of them will make a mistake and buy the wrong tires and will have to buy more new tires. It will be a big expense that some cannot afford.

Everybody can afford to buy one spec tire and keep the same 70 series tires on the other 3 corners.

Also, everyone can afford to keep all 4 of their existing tires if no spec tire rule is implemented.

The Sprint cars have a spec tire on the RR. Pony Stocks can have a spec tire on the RF. There would be no more science involved in finding the right street tires to race on. The class would get more affordable.

-Maurice
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keepitmovin



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep it how it is. This was my first year and I ran 75 series's which did suck
However, on 2 used tires one of which was my RF. I still was qualifying 16.7's by end of the year. 70 series are there, stop worrying about what you can do to slow down the field and worry about your own car. Or try a Toyota!! You might get the record then. Just saying don't change a thing. Stop complaining about what others are doing or what tires they got. Or they are doing this or that. You do you and let the cards play where they lay. If you don't have the hand. Then work harder. My rant is done.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the number of different 65 series tires that are currently available, which one would you buy to use on your Pony Stock if the rules allowed 65 series tires?

It's easy to find the cheapest tire, prices are usually listed. But the cheapest tire isn't always the most desirable.

Which tire would end up being the fastest tire with the most grip in the corners and the least amount of sidewall flex to keep the largest contact patch on the surface? This would most likely not be the cheapest tire.

Which one would last the longest? Most likely, not the fastest tire and probably not the cheapest tire, either.

If the Pony Stocks switch to a 65 series tire, nobody knows which tire to buy until everybody buys some tires and a few weeks worth of qualifying, heats, and features are run. The good tires will be running up front. The bad tires will have tread coming off the RF tire. More tires will be bought by those who aren't running up front because they will want the same tires the front runners have.

Maybe if a 65 series tire is allowed, the RF tire should be a spec tire. So, here is my new rules proposal for the class.

"Any D.O.T. stamped tire. Max width P195. Minimum 70 series. Minimum tread wear rating of 300. Tread wear rating must be visible on outside of tire. 65 Series tires are also allowed at all four corners, but the tire used on the right front must be purchased from the track."

So, that rule would keep the current 70 series rule intact while allowing a 65 series tire to be implemented carefully. By using a spec 65 series tire on the RF, nobody using 65 series tires will gain any advantage over anyone else using 65 series tires. This might be a good way to phase in the 65 series tire. Those choosing to keep running a 70 series tire would not be using a spec tire on the RF.

Tires on a Pony Stock are very, very important. It is the single most important item on the entire car that can make you fast or slow. Item number two that makes you fast or slow is sitting behind the steering wheel.

More thoughts, anyone?

-Maurice
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Hartmanracing



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Maurice that tires are important as well as seat time, however tires can NOT overcome a poor set up on the car. Everyone knows what tires we run and some have tried the same tires and accused us of soaking our tires because they couldn't make the tires work well. Every driver likes a different feel, and has a different driving style. I will always believe a spec tire, whether right front or all four, will only hurt the class because those that don't understand how to make these cars turn will be even slower on the spec tire and thus we spread out the field even more and hurt the fans enjoyment. Keep in mind also that if you put a hard right front tire your car will want to "push" out of the corner. How many more cars will get damaged when they try to pass on the outside and the slower car slides up due to this?

I would also like to say there are VERY few people giving their opinion on this and that is bad. Please don't complain later if you did not give input on the subject.



Back to topic......can you still buy 70 series tires to meet the current rule package? YES!

Therefore should we force the class to go out and buy new tires that some can not afford? NO!

Do we need a decision on this soon so we can make changes if necessary? Yes
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartmanracing wrote:
I would also like to say there are VERY few people giving their opinion on this and that is bad. Please don't complain later if you did not give input on the subject.


I couldn't have said that any better.

-Maurice
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bigblockink



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Tires Reply with quote

I'm on the same page I don't care if we open it up to both sizes or keep it the same but would like to have a final decision so I know what I'm doing.
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bigboiii22



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allow both sizes good idea
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it seems like the same people keep commenting on this topic. the guys that are fast and have already bought tires for next year or have horded the good tires dont want a rule change because there going to lose their advantage on the feild. which i can understand i would be the same way if i was in that situration. but most on the guys that race in this class havent bought tires for next year yet. so there wouldnt be any extra cost switching to a 65 series tire. i ran on a sumic 19570/R14 tire which was junk. the RF would be done after 3 nights. but i still made them work for the season i think i bought 10 tires this year do to cut tires and replacing the RF. my tire bill was crazy. so u cant tell me you cant make a junk tire work. it comes down to driving ablity and moving the car around to make it work. plus moving to a different tire will make make everyone make adjustments and get the fast guys back to work on setup. we been on the 70 series tire for so long some guys got there cars dialed in and dont really have to make any adjustment to there cars from week to week. why not shake the feild up and make everyone do there HW and even the feild up will everyone is trying to figure out the new setup. jmt
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Marq Eaton #12



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do we got a answer yet?
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torg38



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize I no longer have a dog in this fight. However moving to a lesser series tires leads us down a path that has everyone spending more money to go racing. Keeping the rules the same year after year is what has allowed the Pony class to continue to grow.

Look at the history of this class. IE before and after manual transmissions. The rate at which manual transmissions were used in production vehicles was only 5% of vehicles in the united states. So by changing the rule to allow the faster Manual transmission to be legal. All of sudden the other 95% of the cars are no longer are fastest.

Previously to that 4 valve per cylinder engines were not allowed. Till again, they were given acceptance. Resulting in vast depreciation of the current cars. Everyone that wanted to be fast were forced to pay the price to compete.

If I can sway the vote in any direction I would like to see the current rules locked in place for a guaranteed time frame. Such as 3years. That would allow for more racers to keep the money for other things such as fuel, safety equipment etc. (we all know someone that runs outdated belts because he would rather by go-fast parts).

This class at one time was built on the idea of knock out the glass and go racing. It is unable to get back to that because of the forward progress the class has seen. But if the rules are locked then maybe things can stabilize and the class will continue to grow. Otherwise I'm sure someone will be building a chassis car to some how fit the class. Wink

Just my $.02 Keep the change. Mg
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Their is only air in my tires, Like your head...Evernham
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jtrina



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 48
Location: East Lansing

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: pony stock tires Reply with quote

I agree with torg 38 lock the rules for three years that will give enough time for the track mgt. to do their research on all tires all brands. the class was started running on 185/70x14 or 195/70x15 and it worked fine. my self I like it the way it is now if you work on your car and set up you can make your car faster and the idea of letting all cars except neons run 65 series is not a good idea because it will break up the class even more. I think it should stay the same no matter what type of car you run, everyone run the same size tire and that will help keep the cost of racing down so everyone even the ones that are just starting out can race. This is suppose to be a entry level and cheap class to race. These are just my thoughts Rolling Eyes

TnT Racing T17
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